The only reason I humanize him...is because I can stand here with full confidence and say that none of us deserve any type of intervention. No limbs. No cures. No answers. Period.

That may not be your belief...but I think that humans are full of more evil than they even recognize, and I honestly think that we've pushed God so far out of the equation...that he almost SHOULDN'T interfere...just to teach us a lesson.

None of us are perfect. Thankfully...we're not the ones running the show.

So if you wanna know why God won't heal them...take it up with him, is pretty much what I'm getting at. If you're asking me why I think God won't heal them...I can only put myself in that position...and use the emotion and thoughts that I have experienced in my lifetime to try and come up with a reason. By doing so...I have a jaded view of humanity...and I'm ready for our expiration, so I would say that none of us deserve ANY answers....not even amputees. *shrugs*

Life's tough.

(^BTW...I would never say that to an amputee who is looking for a REAL answer to the question...but we're talking about Colostomizer...who doesn't believe...and is not here for answers for these people...but is here to debate existance, using their position as an appeal to the pathos. I don't play games like that...so there's your answer.)
Like I said...I see it's appeal to the pathos...but those rationalizations do not PROVE anything. They are just plucks at emotion to get us to feel some type of resentment towards a higher being that we simply can't understand. Most don't actually make any point other than "well hey...that's not a very comfortable situation"....or end with a question about possibility.

How can we resent what we do not understand? How can we dictate possibility at such a teen-ager-like age in human knowledge? We still don't know everything...and how everything works...INCLUDING the human body and it's regeneration characteristics. So until we figure it all out...how about you settle down with all the "truths" of what is real and what isn't? I'm gonna say it again...those "rationalizations" do not dictate truth, no matter how much we "feel" they express our point of view.
Well then how are you going to ask me about God, then, first of all? Second, How do you know he doesn't answer them, son? You know...when a limb is severed...there's still a section of time that the limb can be re-attached? Sometimes...the reason that they are considered an amputee...is because the limb was causing HARM to the body...and needed to be removed.

God talks about this in the Bible too. In fact...he encourages humans to "remove imperfections" and "sinful organs".......so if you don't know everything about every single amputee out there...how do you know that those removed limbs were not for the betterment of the person? (I would reference the verse where God talks about cutting your hand off if it sins...and plucking your eye out if it does...but I don't remember it. Anyone else?)

Maybe that limb NEEDED to be removed? *shrugs*
Are you going to tell me that it shouldn't have been, Dr.?

So...what about all the people who've gotten their fingers, hands, arms, and legs reattached? Are you going to give them credit for getting their prayers answered...since they WERE, IN FACT, an amputee at ONE TIME?

What about when they get a "replacement" limb for one that was full of gangrene? Will you give THAT one credit to the "answered prayers" side?
No...what I'm saying is that you don't know all the people who've gotten those limbs back...whether it be in one fashion or another. You don't know whos prayers HAVE been answered...you just know of the people out there who have the visible imperfections. So you think it's easy to try and use your "logic" and appeal to emotion to try and deface God...but at the same time...you're doing it in a dispicable (sp?) way.

You're presenting a facade of "we're looking for answers for these poor souls who're missing legs"....which is what I consider to be a terrible way to try and gain attention to your cause. Your premise is faulty...and you're not looking for answers. You're attempting to deceive the population into using "reason" to ignore truth.

The truth is...prayers get answered, son.


(^BTW...I'm not trying to be condescending...when I say "son"...it's because I'd like to be smiling at you while I say this, but it's hard to describe on the internet. So I use "personable" nicknames to emphasise my lack of anger and discourse. Please do not feel as if I'm trying to demean you.)

Genuine Christian? Ya know...I don't think I've ever heard one of described that way......what IS a genuine Christian, my friend?
Well...since you aren't a Christian...I have to wonder if you ever really were...or if it was just some "phase" of your life where you thought that being good would get you to heaven. *Shrugs*
I onno.

I just know that we all have it...but then reality hits...and that's when we find out what we REALLY are.......so I have my doubts as to whether or not you ever really were a "genuine" Christian...but I'm leaving that to you to describe, since I'm not exactly sure by your meaning of it.

But if you never were a Christian...how could you possibly know what God is really like? Seems odd to me that you would know more about what God would be like than me, since you don't really believe he exists, and you don't talk to him?


To the second part...I say...that you can not compare cancer patients with amputees...you are obviously not a doctor, so how can you use such ignorant rationalization? How can you compare two diseases that you only know a few symptoms of, especially when you DON'T know the entire process of how they react when applied to the human body? What about your lack of explination on how to treat said problems?

My point is that you are in no position to dictate "how" God works...or "when" he works...or when it "counts". You may be comfortable with just calling anything like that a "coincidence"...but that doesn't mean that what you think is necessarily the truth. You're just as limited as we are.
They don't. Sometimes they get reattached. But if you want a completely new, regenerated leg...you gotta have a clone to take it from. We're not starfish...we're humans. Remember that.

Humans have limited abilities....no matter how many our God has.

We. Are. Not. Gods.
We. Do. Not. Regenerate. (At least...not in that fashion.)

^Lol...hasn't science taught you anything?


Why doesn't God heal amputees?

Obviously...because we were not made to be healed. We were meant to die, at some point. We were meant to rot, and decay. Limbs are supposed to disappear eventually. We all turn to dust.

This flesh is nothing.
The soul is what counts.
Why are you so worried about being "healed"? No one's perfect...why should amputees be perfect?
Look...while I sympathize with your view...welcome to Earth. Survival of the fittest. Where the greatest live the longest.

I don't agree with how a lot of Christians run their personal politics. Then again...I don't agree with a lot of Athiests and Anarchists either. But that doesn't mean that I can rationalize their "belief" to be something that is actually placing the LEGAL "limits" on the people.

That is the Government...and there's no way around that. How do you plan on linking every single problem that the government has to Christianity?

What you consider to be a problem with religion is simply a problem with power, and how it is being used.

The Bible says not to kill...but we have a death penalty. The Bible tells us that when you're transgressed against...you're supposed to turn the other cheek........but then we have a legal system to perform our various lawsuits in order to "get even" with those who have wronged us.

^If you think that Christiandom is ruling politics...I'd say we are doing a pretty piss-poor job with our fundamental beliefs. I'm standing in full agreement with you when I say that we need to separate church and state, because the room for abuse is rediculous...and people blame problems like this on religion.

You know damn well that the Pope is not the one who votes on an HPV vaccine...it's the people and it's the government.

In the long run...equal rights will win out...as we've seen in the past...we're just still coping with a few nuances at this present state, and whatever complaint you have now is no different than any other "minority" or person who felt like their rights were being infringed upon. It takes time, but it'll get fixed, eventually.
And what we call that is deception.

You brand your website with a question "why won't God heal amputees?"...and then when we give you answers...you reject them. That is not a question...but an attempt to get us to destroy our own beliefs by asking questions for which there are answers...but we are ignoring them........and frankly...that's why you're going to be unsuccessful with this attempt to get us to use "reason"...because your "reasoning" behind using this approach was erroneous.
Again...you don't know the difference. You're not a doctor. You don't know how many amputees HAVE been restored...since you seem to only notice the ones who haven't. Curing cancer (you know...oddly growing malignant cells) vs reattaching a severed limb (where cells have been totally divided that they separate on the entire body into two completely different objects) ARE completely different things. Kind of like a headache vs. a cut....you treat each one differently, so quit standing them side-by-side.....they are not the same.

Ultimately...my point against this is that your limited knowledge of these subjects does not call me to use my "reason" and question anything, because I know very little about the world of medicine (as do you).

And while you have all kinds of proof all over the world of people with nubs for appendages...there's also proof of people who have had those fixed naturally, or artificially.......but you refuse to accept or think about those. Where's the reason?
Because the most unambiguous cases get overlooked, and deemed something "not so miraculous".

Simply put...you're ignorant of the cases wherein he HAS answered those prayers, and ignorant of HOW he answered that prayer. Just because you refuse to recognize it...doesn't mean that it isn't there.
OKAY then...knowing that you're attempting to deceive me into a conversation where you want me to use limited knowledge to eliminate an entity that, technically, I can not define.........what're you thinking with this thread, man?

You honestly think ruse this will work?
That is the point. You DIDN'T ask God...so you don't get an answer to your ultimate question of why amputees don't get healed.

But because you're not really looking for an answer to that question...and because you're trying to use that question to "defeat" our belief, then we can go ahead and just dismiss the question. We see the deception...and ignore your "cry for reason", because we already use it, believe it or not.

But you're trying to make us ALL out to be crazy nuts that are only here to make your life hard...and that seems more like a whining lazy-ass than someone who's actually concerned with their rights to a vaccine.

News flash.
We're not all that way.
[/quote]

OOPS!

Sorry...I saw one sentence, and felt the need to address it all.....and NOW I get to this part...lol.

Anyway...the answer to that last one is this:

God "only heals people in ambiguous" cases because you don't see the work that he does in the unambiuous cases. Not to mention...you don't see ALL cases...so you're missing the ones where "amputees" (or anyone who would be missing a limb...one way or another) have had their limbs removed...and then reattached.

The only reason I bring those up, is because you would never give credit for something like that to God...even though we're not even supposed to have a limb put back on, once it's removed. We decay because we were meant to die at some point. So were those limbs. But through the creator...we've learned ways in which we can restore those limbs both naturally and/or artificially.

You gotta think wider than the box if you're going to start talking about God and his/her abilities. Just because you can limit the debate to people who haven't had their prayers answered yet...doesn't mean that prayers don't get answered.

__________________
Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

That's just nitpicking Rebal, and you know it.

Colostomizer is talking about "magical restoration of health" which the only explanation is through prayer. Terminal cancer patients are sometimes "healed" through prayer...why is it that a man who lost his leg in a war cannot get the same kind of benefit? There has never been one recorded incident of a person waking up with their limb restored. There are, however, several reports of people with imperceivable ailments, such as cancer, that were somehow miraculously healed through prayer.

You're still dancing around the issue. You're telling us that cancer patients will always get their prayers answered directly, but that an amputee will just have to settle for some form of "indirect" answering of their wishes. No amputee has ever gotten their limb back, but cancer patients have gotten exactly what they wished for, which is being cured of cancer. How does that seem correct to you?

And don't pull a Bill O'Reilly on Colostomizer. He is dealing in pure and simple logic. No amputees are doing Colosto-commercials. This is not some giant cause; he is asking people to consider the obvious. You sound like Bush who is calling people terrorists for questioning "the truth".

Rebal, you're being silly now. Colostomizer's argument has absolutely nothing to do with the complexity of one's condition. His argument is pure and simple; regardless of the actual condition, cancer patients get healed because of "prayer", and amputees never do.

He's trying to discredit prayer. Not debate on the complexities of cancer vs. a severed limb.

You've essentially killed debate with that statement.

So, basically, you're telling me that cancer patients were "meant" to be cured of their illness and lead happy lives, and that all amputees are "destined" to live with their deficiency for the rest of their lives.

It's not a question of what is "perfect". It's a question of, people don't want to live with cancer, and they don't want to live with a severed limb. But hey, I mean...a person with MS who goes through incredible amounts of pain and suffering before they die, their life is still worth living, right? It doesn't matter what condition you're in, you should just be thankful you're alive, right? And those people walking around with all their limbs and no diseases...I guess they just deserve that more than me, right?

Your reason is faith. That's something that is not debateable, so it's not something you should be bringing to the table. Face it, Rebal. You have a positive bias towards God. Colostomizer and I are sitting here trying to figure out why God would help cancer patients but not amputees...and of course, we already know the answer. God doesn't listen to ANYBODY, rather than just not listening to amputees. But you are ALSO trying to pretend to understand how God works, not just us.

And again, there has never been one single incidence of a restored limb. Ever.

This sounds suspiciously like you're pretending to know how God works. Come on, Rebal. We're dealing in simple logic here. People claim that prayers cure cancer...but prayers have, very obviously, never helped an amputee. How can you possibly debate that?

If he had an answer to his question, it wouldn't be a debate. Stop treating him like he has a one-track mind. Colostomizer is not a blind fool, and if he had a good answer to this problem favoring God, he wouldn't have made a thread about it. Half of your argument is trying to slander his character by assuming that he won't yield to "reason", when in reality there is no logical answer to his question. "God works in mysterious ways" is not a reason, nor is it credible of you to say that when at the same time you preach "You don't know how God works".

That's a complete shot in the dark, and you know it.

Look, we're debating from a human standpoint. Cancer and a severed limb are pretty much universally considered negative situations. People pray to rectify those negative situations. Cancer patients have supposedly had their negative situations resolved - DIRECTLY - whereas amputees have never had their limbs restored, and you claim they have benefited in some other way.

You cannot pretend that it is logical for you to say, "Well, maybe God doesn't want amputees to have their limbs back, but maybe he decided it was better for them to get 50 cent wage raises at their place of employment, and they get to have a 'better character' now that they can see what it's like to be an amputee. See? God works how he will."

That's total bullsh*t.

__________________

Lemon, listen to yourself. The way humans were made dictates that we can not regenerate limbs. It's outside the bounds of possibility. Regarding cancer, it IS something that can go away through medication or prayer... so these two comparisons aren't fair at all.
If you already know the answer, then you're certainly not "trying to figure out why God would help cancer patients but not amputees"... so you have a negative bias against God. You're accusing Rebal of having a bias when you in fact have one as well. That's being hypocritical.
How can you say that prayers have never helped an amputee? They may not have re-generated a limb, but who's to say that prayer didn't improve their life in other aspects?
Here's a little something you typed previously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon Colostomizer and I are sitting here trying to figure out why God would help cancer patients but not amputees...and of course, we already know the answer. God doesn't listen to ANYBODY, rather than just not listening to amputees.

You're telling me you don't have one track minds when you supposedly know the answer, yet you're trying to figure it out at the same time? It makes no sense whatsoever.

__________________

Just because I’m losing
Doesn’t mean I’m lost
Doesn’t mean I’ll stop
Doesn’t mean I would cross

OF COURSE it's nitpicking...because you guys want results...but you only want them in specific ways (You try and limit the debate...so I have to nitpick to show you that you CAN'T limit the debate....it's broader than you're trying to discuss...and that's not fair to argue)....and God doesn't work that way, man. Never has. Don't know if he ever will.

The point is...if Colostomizer is allowed to limit the debate to "why doesn't God answer amputees" when he's only talking about amputees that haven't been answered......then the answer is "The answer is coming."

Confused yet?

Do you see the erroneous thinking? We CAN'T LIMIT this to whether or not a limb has been fully restored...because humans don't fully restore limbs...so we're not even talking about the right species. We're humans.

We don't regenerate...we replace. We don't regenerate new organs that have to be "cut out" of a cancer patient either............there IS NO DIFFERENCE here. You're trying to compare different diseases, and it just doesn't work....ESPECIALLY when the point you're trying to make doesn't have anything to do with the diseases...you just want to challenge a belief.

This literally...has LITTLE to do with amputees and their loss....and A LOT to do with the fact that God hasn't answered an amputee in the "DIRECT" fashion that YOU wish.
I'm not saying ANYONE will get their prayers answered in the way that that want....but sometimes...it happens. Yeah...sometimes cancer patients get "cured" without explination. Sometimes...amputees get a free leg donated to them.

You say that a limb has never been restored...but I know for a fact that they have been reattached...so why doesn't that count?

Cancer patients who have malignant parts cut out of their bodies don't regenerate THOSE body parts....what makes you think an amputee who had a gangrene infection in his left arm would be any different? The cancer patient can get a donated organ....or the amputee can get an artifical arm..........I'm not seeing the problem here...other than you're STILL trying to compare two completely different diseases.

I don't know who you think you are to determine which "answer" is more "direct"...other than you want to see a fully restored limb...but technically...both are answers. You just want a DIFFERENT answer...and I can't really help you with that.
*shrugs*

Take it up with him. *points up*

BTW...that seems correct to me, because this is Earth........and life is not about fairness, although a common misconception.
Right. I understand that. I repeatedly point out how I understand that point...because I understand where you're coming from. It's a sh*tty situation...and we don't really have a DEFINATE answer as to why we can't regenerate our body parts.

But that doesn't mean that we can't make due...as he's helped us to do so far. He's helped us with the knowledge of how to recreate an artificial limb...and a lot of them are quite advanced, now-a-days...and even provided outlets in which other people could RECEIVE those parts free of charge.

BTW...I'm not calling you a terrorist for questioning the truth.....I'm telling you to go to the source if you've got a question.

If you don't have a question...what is your point?

Your point is that God does not exist...because amputees do not get their prayers answered....and to THAT....I call bullsh*t, because they get answers.

Just not the ones you want...and I'm sorry it doesn't work out the way that YOU want it to...but that's life.
No...you just think it's that way...because you're not a doctor...and you're not a professional on this subject. Ladies and gentlemen...we call this ignorance.

You think cancer patients get cured without loss, because this is a "direct" answer from God.

You think that amputees lose their limb, and never get a "yes"....or get "indirect" answers from God...through artificial recreation.

The fact of the matter is...cancer patients DO lose organs, sometimes...JUST LIKE amputees! Sometimes...cancer patients get cured. Sometimes...amputees get artificial limbs...or the ones that were cut off...get reattached. <-Those are answered prayers, guys. Whether you want to accept that or not...they are.
Then he should think a little bit harder on how to do that...because prayer works all the time. Cures to diseases, and artificial limbs do not.
Well...since God is defined as something that is beyond our comprehension...I don't understand how you can LIMIT the debate to such a small sector of the subject matter....when there's a much broader range of situations and possibilities that should be encompassed when saying the words "amputee".

Actually...I think I broadened the spectrum of discussion, while essentially, we're talking about a significantly smaller group of people with your guys' predetermined lines of what is an "answer"/what is not...and what an "amputee" is/what it isn't.

How can you limit it solely to people who haven't gotten their answers yet...or to the ones that get told "no"? Cause there are people who've gotten yeses...but you guys don't want to acknoledge those.

How am I killing the debate?
You don't think that cancer patients live with deficiencies? You don't think all humans live with deficiencies?

This is why you can not compare the two....obviously...none of us are doctors...so none of us COMPLETELY understand what each disease/problem encompasses. So an "answer" to those prayers could involve lessening of pain...complete recovery...a limp...a fake leg........technically...anything that addresses their wound/injury/disease would be an answer.

Either way...humans don't regenerate...so quit expecting it to.
Whoa whoa whoa...lets back track a second. Who is to say that person A has more than person B? While person A may be missing a leg...person B could be missing their vocal chords. Which is worse?

I don't think we have the ability to determine that...where did MS come from? What does any of this have to do with what we're talking about?

You seem to be pointing at "favortism" for cancer patients over amputees.

Do you not see a problem with this logic of trying to defeat the idea by making it hateable?

What if he DOES favor cancer patients over amputees?

What then?

(If we play your game...we could go on forever....I don't think that argument is much of an argument.)

I'm not saying be thankful you're alive...I don't know where you got that.
And like Cleetus said...you have a negative one.

So if you're going to play in my realm...where God exist...you play by the rules that I was taught. And likewise...when I play in your realm...I play by the rules YOU were taught.

You...in fact...are NOT trying to figure out why he favors one over the other.......so don't act like you are. You're trying to use the idea that amputees don't get their prayers answered...and they do. You're ignoring obvious facts here.....so don't tell me you're "looking for answers" when you know damn well that you're just here to state your point of view.

I'm not saying that you can't state your point of view....but you're lying to us.

You're saying "why won't God heal these people"...and I'm saying "HE DOES!"

But your point is not "why won't God heal these people"...your point is that God doesn't exist.

I tried to tell Colostomizer from the start that this is not a good site to base belief on.......so I'm attacking the site.


DIRECTLY...lol.

MAYBE....just maybe...you're right in the wording of that. Maybe there hasn't EVER been a restored limb........but that goes for ALL of humanity...and not just amputees...so it's not a bias against them. That logic is flawed. That's why they get artificial replacements or reattachments....because HE ANSWERS THEM...whether or not you choose to accept that as a "valid" answer.
That's what I've been trying to say this whole time!! You can't compare those two situations...they are different...and none of us are doctors...so how CAN we debate that?? I've already pointed out the problems with this several times, because you guys are trying to limit the debate unfairly...so we're going in circles about this now.

Not to mention...that the universal rule of "humans don't regenerate" encompasses cancer patients, too.......so I'm not really seeing your points.

Prayers HAVE helped amputees...but you guys don't want to accept those OTHER situations as answers. That...I can't really help you with.

It's your own decision to consciously accept or deny those possiblities. I can't MAKE you understand.
Lemon....can you tell me what Colostomizers question REALLY IS?

Because I've already answered a few of these directly...yet you seem to think I've not already.

"Why doesn't God heal amputees?"
-He does, actually...and in many ways. Sometimes he gives them an Artificial limb to replace the old, decrepit one...sometimes he can reattach the limb, if it shouldn't have come off...but did. Sometimes...the amputated flesh was actually THAT PERSON'S healing...believe it or not!!! Had they kept the leg...that disease would have spread to their heart, the other appendages...and ultimately...it would have killed that person.
Bullsh*t. That's truth, son! I can't help if you ignore other instances wherein God DOES perform his magic...but I CAN show you what I'm talking about.

If you refuse to accept those examples...I can't help that.

All I know is that there ARE answers for amputees...and that God works with ALL people...not just cancer patients.
Right. Both are negative. And while cancer patients...to you...may get answered directly...amputees get direct answers too, but I don't think you'd accept theirs as "direct"...just because it doesn't restored to what you DEEM to be fit. It's not like cancer patients get a completely new body that is perfect and free of all problems/ailements that occurred BEFORE the healing.

Their organs (lungs, tongues, mouths, colons, etc) don't just reappear....they lose pieces too....because humans don't regenerate.
Lol...now now.

I didn't necessarily say that THAT is how they would get answered...but hey....that could be one. Do know every single amputee?

Have you wiped that possibility that you just described from "answers" of the millions and millions of amputees that have ever existed?

Cause, technically...that COULD be one.

It just wouldn't meet your standards of what a "direct" answer to that problem would be......even though you consider a lack of cancer in once-tumorous places to be a "direct" one??

^^You guys have some weird logic...lol.

But I digress. Ultimately...I think we need to establish a fair question in order to have a fair debate. Loaded questions are the REAL BS.

__________________
Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

Rebal, you have either completely misunderstood everything I've said in this thread or you've consciously rejected it. It's getting difficult to continue respecting you, to be honest. The logic and reason of my position is undeniable. Let's get something straight: the only reason that you're even attempting to argue against me is because you have already accepted God. You did so before examining Christianity with reason, and now you're beyond hope. I do not pander to emotions, only to reason. And when I say I was a genuine Christian, I mean that I believed. I would pray to God and believe that I was talking to someone. I was a Christian when I was younger because my mom exposed me to Christianity (and did not address any competing schools of thought) at an age when I was intellectually defenseless. When I started to figure out how to think, I began to doubt. You've either not figured out how to think (a lot of people never do), or you choose not to (one of the most evil things you can ever do).

I do not want to continue this discussion with you because you are completely incapable of accepting my position, and the end result can only be my complete loss of respect for you.

__________________