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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #81 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hulk
You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying but I am probably not stating my point as it is being formed in my mind so let me clear things up. I have no interest in arguing the existence of God with you. I went off on a tangent having to do with God's existence, but I wasn't trying to refute his existence, nor the possibility of his existence. However, since it didn't have very much to do with Islam, I will ask you this so you can answer it. Why is "Covering Your Ass" going to make you better off in the afterlife than simply living a good life, being respectful of God's creation (assuming there is one), and showing kindness towards others?
Islam is way more than just what I am saying, if I try to explain it all to you and the beliefs it has about life than it would just be easier to read the Koran for yourself and interpret of it what you will.

Islam is not based on one thing, it is a life style and is based on so many other values.

I Get your point about being good and not believing in God.
I will ask an Imam for you what they interpret of it form the Koran and see what happens. Personally, I think that being good is a righteous thing to do and as long as you are doing good deeds, and everything, it is STILL only just part of it.
You see, its like the butter (Doing good things) for the pancake (belief), without it just isnt as sweet, but you still need the the pancake as the core of it all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Hulk
Also, could you rephrase this:

The Existance of God is whether or not you want to Cover You Ass.

I think I know what you are saying, but I want to be sure before I comment on it.


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What I meant by that is that it is the internal struggle between yourself to verify why you believe in God, and the only verification I have come to is basically for CYA.

Since CYA is self-beneficial, that means that God created us for our benefit, not his. So that means that in order to recieve what we want we must show we are really in it to get to heaven.

We show we mean it by living a righteous life and so forth. Also we show we are sincere about what we want (To go to Heaven) by believing in something (God) that is as hard if not harder than believing in the Cookie Monster.

This shows sincerity and shows we mean it. Otherwise we are not really caring to much about ourselves, and how me may or may not end up after death.

- I hope that made sense.
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Last edited by iCeAt; 09-26-2006 at 05:26 PM.
 
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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #82 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by `NthErik.
I don't think you understand his post. It's hypothetical. Say he's a Hinduist, and he wants to join a Monotheistic religion.

What would make him want to join Islam more than Judaism and Christianity? What's more appealing about it?
I mean, i see it this way;
Nobody said you must join a religion and a way of life.

Have your life and just add the belief of God into, as well as being righteous.

I personally beleive that this might be a better way of CYA then joining a certain religion when IMO they all have the same essential fundamentals, so say one is right over the other and you didnt beleive in the other. Then you are screwed.

I beleive that if I take the core out of them all and adopt the similar values they all ahev then I should be safe... Thats just me though, on to his question.

--
Though he is Hindu and wants to convert. What would be better than stories of why people converted to Islam rather than the other two?

Here: are some.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/evans01.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/keller04.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/marwa.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/flood.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/lynette.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/farrell.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/ambassador02.htm

http://www.islamfortoday.com/karla.htm

---
There are SOOO many more stories like these. I was born to a Muslim Fatyher and a mother who converted, though she doesnt give me a real clear answer on why besides the fact that it is the most fair to women, it is rational, and reasons like that.

So I never experienced conversion, rather I experienced intense questioning of Islam, and since I had always believed in God all the answers were their for me, so I stuck with Islam.

Here are the rest of the stories:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/converts.htm

Read them if you like, maybe they will answer your quesitons better than I can.
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Last edited by iCeAt; 09-26-2006 at 05:38 PM.
 
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Islam; Do you know?
Cursed Lemon
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  #83 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Ah, you shouldn't lol.
If you don't believe in God then they are all the same to you, and therefor you shouldn't waste your time with them.

So I know you dont believe because you think its foolish, if you have that mindset, then how is Islam, when the core is all about God, going to sound better than Christianity or Judaism?

If you don't believe in God then religion is non-existent to you.

-----

Though lets say that you will for the sake of debate accept God.

Islam is just more accepting of Judaism and Christianity.
Also, people claim that Islam gives more rational answers to questions than the other, not a fact, but a claim by converts and the like.

Jews don't accept Christians and Christians dont exept Jews, and neither accept Islam.
Though in the Core I believe that they all beleive the same thing.
That there is a God, and that we must be good, and believe in God.

So if you dont want to be part of organized religion don't.
You can just be good and believe in God.

Then again, you don't believe in God, so how would even that help you.

---

NONE OF THEM HAVE CONCRETE EVIDENCE OVER THE OTHER TWO.

what do you mean by this?
Evidence on God, they dont have any evidence besides rational thought.

So don't convert, since none can prove God to you.

----
If thats not where your getting at then tell me.

By Evidence I take it you mean proof on God... Right? or What do you mean?

----
What I was getting at...

Is why did YOU choose Islam over the others?

Because let's face it. The only...ONLY way you can justify this to me is "personal revelation". I got that from Rebal, and I accepted it, because it's his personal business. He didn't give me any crap about the structure of the Bible or religious history, he told me that he had a revealing experience. So I accept that.
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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #84 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
What I was getting at...

Is why did YOU choose Islam over the others?

Because let's face it. The only...ONLY way you can justify this to me is "personal revelation". I got that from Rebal, and I accepted it, because it's his personal business. He didn't give me any crap about the structure of the Bible or religious history, he told me that he had a revealing experience. So I accept that.
Ok, I see now. You want to know what triggered it.

I am short on time, but I promise a detailed answer.

For now, read other people testimonials, that I have posted.
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Darth Hulk
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  #85 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Islam is way more than just what I am saying, if I try to explain it all to you and the beliefs it has about life than it would just be easier to read the Koran for yourself and interpret of it what you will.

Islam is not based on one thing, it is a life style and is based on so many other values.

I Get your point about being good and not believing in God.
I will ask an Imam for you what they interpret of it form the Koran and see what happens. Personally, I think that being good is a righteous thing to do and as long as you are doing good deeds, and everything, it is STILL only just part of it.
You see, its like the butter (Doing good things) for the pancake (belief), without it just isnt as sweet, but you still need the the pancake as the core of it all.




What I meant by that is that it is the internal struggle between yourself to verify why you believe in God, and the only verification I have come to is basically for CYA.

Since CYA is self-beneficial, that means that God created us for our benefit, not his. So that means that in order to recieve what we want we must show we are really in it to get to heaven.

We show we mean it by living a righteous life and so forth. Also we show we are sincere about what we want (To go to Heaven) by believing in something (God) that is as hard if not harder than believing in the Cookie Monster.

This shows sincerity and shows we mean it. Otherwise we are not really caring to much about ourselves, and how me may or may not end up after death.

- I hope that made sense.

That all makes sense, the only part I have a problem with is your pancake/butter analogy as it seems really backwards to me. This is really just a personal philosophy, but I really don't think that your the pancake part should depend on how bad you want to get into heaven. Stick with me on this analogy, cause I may get it mixed up:

Imagine you are a college football coach recruiting for your school. Now, you have 3 people to pick from. The guy that's a first team, All-American quarterback, the guy that was best on his team, although his team wasn't that great, and the guy who was just so so. Now, if the All-American doesn't show any interest one way or the other when it comes to desire to join your program, wouldn't you still offer him a scholarship to your school? He's still amazing at football, the fact that he doesn't show any interest in your school doesn't change that. Now, the second guy is probably worthy as well, but he has a whole lot of interest in your school. He would be just as good if not better to offer a scholarship, but by no means am I going to offer him one before the first guy. The third guy didn't cut it as a high school player, so he damn sure isn't ready to be a college player, although he wants to get in more than anybody. He would never even be considered.

Getting back to the pancakes, and why I think that it should be the other way around, how can doing good things be such a small part of it? I think that behaving properly, acting like a decent human being should, in the long run, completely overshadow whether or not one believed a certain thing. And that pertains to any religion I think. The only reason I don't like devoting my time to a religion is because it takes away time from bettering myself and helping further society in the best way I know how.


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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #86 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Personaly I would pick the so-so guy, train him, then use him.
With his interest, he will surpass the other guy in no time and be more valuable to me than a guy who doesn't give a sh.t in my overall cause of making them a better football player, but more importantly, a better person.
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  #87 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
What I was getting at...

Is why did YOU choose Islam over the others?

Because let's face it. The only...ONLY way you can justify this to me is "personal revelation". I got that from Rebal, and I accepted it, because it's his personal business. He didn't give me any crap about the structure of the Bible or religious history, he told me that he had a revealing experience. So I accept that.
As he said before, Islam is more accepting of other religions.
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Quote:
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To save their lifes we should just Atom bomb them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuff (The Universal Answer To Anyone Who Doesn't Hate Muslims)
...you're a terrorist sympathizer. I'd rather be an idiot if that's the choice. At least I'd be a person, though stupid, who is at least on the right side of morality. God doesn't care if you're stupid or not, he does care if you are evil or not.
 
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Cursed Lemon
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  #88 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General AI
As he said before, Islam is more accepting of other religions.
He won't get into Jew heaven by being "accepting".
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iCeAt
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  #89 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General AI
As he said before, Islam is more accepting of other religions.
One of my man reasons.
In my testimony of how I came to Islam, I will try and explain all I can in all sorts of detail of what my reasons are.

I don't have time to type it out now, but I will soon.
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Darth Hulk
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  #90 (permalink) Default 09-26-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Personaly I would pick the so-so guy, train him, then use him.
With his interest, he will surpass the other guy in no time and be more valuable to me than a guy who doesn't give a s**t in my overall cause of making them a better football player, but more importantly, a better person.
I would have to disagree with the logic there. But see, why waste all that time training someone to be a good person when the other people are already being good people on their own. Or to stick with the football analogy, why would I waste time training someone when I've got a world class athelete and the next best thing. Interest alone does not make anyone good at anything. You have to be willing to work at it. Obviously the guy likes football but doesn't he already want to be good at football? How come he isn't already? The guy that is already good has obviously developed the values and skills it takes to succeed, so I'd much rather have him because now I can focus on making my team better than just having to focus on one lousy player. Granted, not everyone will be awesome, but if I have a larger pool to select from than I have spots to fill, I'd rather take the person most capable.


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