1. The only reason I asked you that question was to see how you would answer it. You didn't do a very thorough job. I have been in an argument now for a week about it with my mother. I have been defending Islam and she opposes it for its treatment of women. Wich she definately has a point but it is my argument that out of most of the religions out there its ground rules are the best for women and men and it is other factors that determine the misstreatment of women. It is the governments of other countries and their ignoring the treatment by other groups of muslims that I dislike. But through all of that, if I was forced into a diety worshiping religion Islam is most likely top of my list but I would have to go to the moon to do it right because it has been f..ked up in 90% of population here.

2. I have already torn apart that whole science and Islam thing a year ago the last time a thread like this was made and I do not feel like doing it again so if you want to relive that, then do a search. Because there is not a connection between the validity of Islam and science so making that claim makes you look uneducated. Faith does not validate evidence. So stop making claims that your faith validates anything for anyone other than yourself. And keep science out of your posts as you are not up to par on that yet.

3. There is no such thing as Darwinism anymore. Get with the times.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section

My Facebook thing. . .

Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/movies/81621-movies-you-need-see-before-you-die-weekly-review.html

Did you read my previous post?

Islam WANTS you to believe out of fear of God, not the Devil but Fear of God, and if we do he will give us the answers to life, and a place teo reside that is truly Bliss. Pascals theory applies very well here, for the following reason, which is rational and not spiritual.
I dont think God gains anything from us going to Heaven. God does not need us, he created us for US, as Islam explians.

So that is used with my rationality of CYA (Cover Your Ass)...
In life if you dont CYA you are a fool, and I want to CYA myself in every aspect.
If you dont agree with that as being rational, then I have no idea what your definition of rationality is.

Read this article if you want...
http://www.islamicedfoundation.com/proof.htm

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Do muslim women in America get treated the same way they do in Middle Eastern countries?

I mean, I said it, muslims in America are better than muslims in the middle East due to culture and mans Ego. The Middle East is all about man being center of the world, which is culture of course, so the mans ego builds up as he is raised and taught that he is the special child and that parents are called (Abu First male childs name here), women on the other hand are treated as if they are dirt comparing to men over there. Male children get EVRYTHING, they get all the love from their parents and this makes the female children feel inferior and the instincual act for the "superior feeling male" is to treat women as inferior.
I know a family where in 11 or 12 year old boy gets to hit and command his 17 or 18 year old sister, this is culture not Islam, and I will stand by that 100% as I find more passages in the Koran about how women are to be treated fair.

In china right now they are killing all female born children because they want males, this is the feeling of CULTURAL superioriry, not becasue of Buddhism.

For instance, my mother raised me and my sister, to be equal, and I mean seriously equal, she is fair and not a cultured person (Thank God).
If someone day call her (Abu My name) she woud rip them apart, even my father who IS cultured, though my mother has calmed him down.

Its all about being jsut and fair, and I will tell you Islam is about that, the middle-east is about male dominice and women being pretty much slave girls for men, why? I just explained, culture and how they are raised.

I hope that was fairly thorough, if not I will try and elaborate more.
BTW, I am not a man, but I took on the responsibility of answering as well as I could with the current knowledge I have, I am 17 i you'd care to know.

May I see this thread please.

Lol, Its evolution now right?
Im using the wrong termonolgy then, my mistake.

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Watch a movie called Paradise Now.

It shows you how the arabs live in extreme poverty and how the SLIGHTEST chance to get revenge on the Isrealies for throwing them in poverty is taken seriously by almost any arab there.

If you watch the movie it will show you how these "Big Guys" come and "reqruit" poverty strucken males and they give them hope of God, so the poverty stricken males will then go and fight the "Big Guys" political or terrorist war, if so be it named that.

THe problem is the arabs are grudge holders, and they jsut cannot unite themselves and be a better nation because they believe, as did the Roman empire that it is a dog-eat-dog worold and not even a "brother" (Believer in God) is someone to take seriously. So they fight internally with themselves and the mentality over there for arabs are compeltely backwards and screwed up.

Arabs who have not been calmed down and taught the proper way of Islam by Americans, believe it or not, are actually more animal like than person like.
I am not saying this for all arabs, I am addressing those who are terrorist, and or some who are poverty stricken.

So please dont think all arabs are backwards, you prolly have at least 5 arabs neighbors within 5 minutes of you, they have all adapted to the the American culture and accept taking responsibility for themselves, aswell as being peaceful and living with all sorts of people from all sorts of places around them.
This is peace, and America does have peace in its borders, and Islam means peace, and submission to God.

Therefor my conclusion is that American Muslims follow Islam a lot better than Middle-Eastern Muslims. Terrorist can be spawned just as easy form the slums of New York, Gangs, as they call them...

I hope that was helpful.

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I read that article, it didn't really provide any proof. All it seemed to say was (I'm paraphrasing it as I interpreted it) "Look at the earth and all that it has. How could God not have created it." That's not proof and it barely even passes as an explanation. Lack of support for one side does not prove the other side more credible. Evolution at least has some sort of empirical evidence. Just because a large number of people believe something does not make it so. There has to be something to back up your claims or you are not proving anything, you are just stating reasons for you beliefs, which I am still convinced are self-serving.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies

Lol, I know what you mean, but you seriously think that the perfect eco system and planetary structures are accidental...

If so we would continue to have many cool accidents today, such as spilling an ink bottle and it writting for us a poem, or drawing a picture...

Though that is not really point, my point is this.
Islam gives you reasons to believe in God, it is your responsibilty (If you want to) to rationlize to youself consequences and reward.

I bet you "Cover Your Ass" every day of your life, why not do it for what is not sure to come.

I am not sure that I will have a flat tire, but I keep that spare anyway...

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EDIT* BTW, Islam wants to to believe for self-serving reasons lol... How would it affect God if you went to hell?
Though in return for us believing in God for a self-serving reason, we must show God we are sincere in our self-serving, and we must show God that we are willing to pray to him even though we do not see him or can prove him...
That way he knows we are sincere about our want to go to Heaven and not be damned in Hell.

CYA , Islam is all about it.
Christianity might not be, but Islam is.
Islam is all for self-serving reasons to believe in god, but you must back up that you truly want to self-serve yourself and you are willing to pray and do certian things that prove your sincerity.

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You keep a spare tire most likely because you've seen what happens to people that don't. I have no reason to believe in some sort of reward for faith as an afterlife insurance policy because I have seen no empirical evidence (and neither has anyone else) that one is required or would prove useful. Thus, my "Ass" is not in need of covering. I "Cover My Ass" everyday of my life because I know there are consequences if I don't. I have yet to see a single credible reason why I should believe such a thing is necessary for the afterlife (by afterlife I mean what happens after you die, I don't necessarily mean heaven an hell).


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies

If my whole afterlife experience depended simply on whether or not I believed in something as oppossed to how I lived my life and interacted with people, then if God exists, he is a crappy one.

- Me (duh)

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Here is how I shall beak down that statement.

Say you are one of the early shipmen who believed in your fullest that the world was flat.
One guy comes to you and says, look, if we do not believe in the Earth being round, then we will have the live with the tyranny that is behind us!
This man is all for going and seeing, but you call him a foolish wreck and throw him overboard because you think he is not being rational.

So you never go to the end of the ocean becasue you care too much about only what you see, so you go form side ot side and keep trying to find a new unruled land, but soon enough everywhere you look you see the "edge" of the world, and you fear believing that it is round and you can actually go to the other side safely.

Your Freedom DEPENDS on your belief that the world is round, otherwise you are stuck with a tyrant who awaits you at the rear...

You see, a man BELIEVED we could make it to the moon, the creation of the space shuttle was built of the belief that we would get there...
Though I bet you he was called an unrational fool in his time...

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Just as the ship story, we get to the edge of the ocean when we die,
and we see truth once we pass the edge (Exit this world)...

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Thats being stingy, but to each his own.

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I'm not saying that I don't believe there could be an afterlife, a heaven, or a hell. Read that quote again. I am saying that the notion that whether or not I believe is even considered in the criteria is patently absurd. Just because you don't believe that the Earth is round doesn't mean it isn't round. I don't subscribe to any religion because I think they are all supremely flawed. None of them make any sense that I can see. I don't mean to argue against the possibility of an omnipotent being or a higher power. I do mean to argue that no one has anymore credibility than anyone else when it comes to one side or the other unless you have some sort of empirical evidence. That article you posted did not provide any proof. It just gave reasons and that's not proof.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies