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Islam; Do you know?
T r i a D
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  #41 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
religion is within man
Umm, not really. Being spiritual is, but religion has never been "part of us," some just choose to live by it.
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Islam; Do you know?
Darth Hulk
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  #42 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
So you only look at the now, thats fine for you, but I prefer to look towards the future and what could be after death.
Who said I was looking at only the now? I said that there is a way too much here on Earth to deal with without preoccupying myself with things having to do with other realms of existence. It's not only the now I am concerned with, it's the entire time I will be living that I am concerned with. This is a one time thing that I have the oppurtunity to experience. I don't want to waste time worrying about what will happen afterwards. That's like someone giving you a lottery ticket and saying you could win a million dollars in a month and then you only thinking about what you are going to buy with that money instead of living and experiencing that month of your life. What happens if you die in 29 days and all you've been thinking about was what you were gonna do the 30th day from now? You would've completely squandered those 29 days and I find that to be the greatest tragedy anyone could ever endure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
For me, truth is more important than petty anamalistic desires, I will get to them, but they are not on the top of my list.
I am willing to die this second in order to see the truth, though I dont believe in suicide or asking someone to kill me.
Seeing as it's a certainty that you are gonna die and see the truth anyway, don't you think it would be wise to just enjoy this limited time you have here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
When I die, as stupid as this may sound, it will be the happiest time of my life... I see it like this; Finaly after all this time waiting for the truth it comes within minutes or hours, nonetheless I am about to get a dosage of the truth.


If I may die and turn to dust, then fine, I wont remember anything anyway, but if I am to die and there is another world that invloves God, then I am in luck for believing.
Also if I die and I am sent to another world such as a higher stage of human "evolution" then I would adapt and learn at that stage.
More of this being preoccupied with the afterlife at the expense of the current life. Contemplating, wondering, and desiring to know the truth about life after death is normal and probably a good thing. I don't worry about it myself, but the problem I have when people do this is that most of the time they take an incredibly inordinate amount of time out of their daily lives to go wonder, contemplate, and desire to know the truth. You aren't going to find out until you are dead and it would be foolish to end your life right now just to find out, so why not stop worrying about it and live your life. You'll find out when you die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Pascals wager makes perfect sense to me, and finding the ultimate truth is something I'd die for.
Pascal's wager makes people believe for all the wrong reasons, and people who believe solely because of his logic are doing so out of fear whether they admit it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
On Earth, FOR ME, religion thus far gives me the most hope of something after and gives me a way of life on Earth, untill I die. It makes the most sense to me, and I just click with the fact that there could be a God.

Not only that, but I do not take my families "nightmarish" stories for granted, I have an uncle who was harrased by what Islam calls a Jinn...

I dont think that all these people are lying when they say they have been harrased or have seen things like this.
I have never experienced anything but everyone in my family, save my dad and me, has experienced and seen very weird un"provable" beings that co-exist with us.

Go watch a movie called the entity, its weird but a true story.
I mean, with all of these things and up to 3 people claiming they have at the same time together experienced a jinn or other life source, I am not going to deny it..


As I said, if you want to believe then good for you, if not, good for you aswell.
I don't need religion to believe that something exists after death, especially not any of the religions that exist today. All of the ones I've ever seen place way too much importance on the simple act of believing. What does that have to do with anything? Believing or not believing in Santa Clause has no bearing on his existence and it's the same with anything else I've seen. Believing is one thing, to subscribe to a whole lifestyle based on what happens AFTER life is completly absurd to me. The ideas from the movie "Dogma" is the most sensical thing I've ever heard anyone on this planet say about religion. If you haven't seen it, check it out.


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Islam; Do you know?
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  #43 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Explain to me how Santa Clause came to man and made miracles, did clause split the ocean?


Explain to me how man was able to write the Koran.

I live my life very well, I am gonna make money, enjoy life, have a family, and gain all knowledge possible.
Though, if the time comes that I may experience truth over what we percieve as reality, than I will choose truth.

Do not tell me I believe in God for the wrong reasons, my reasons justify themselves with this life and the hereafter.
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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #44 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretentious
Umm, not really. Being spiritual is, but religion has never been "part of us," some just choose to live by it.
Again allow me to rephrase...

Ony man can convince himself that God exist. Only if man wants to believe will he, and belief will come from within man.

I think that explains it better.
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Islam; Do you know?
iCeAt
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  #45 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArKiVe
Ok, I understand, and for the most part I do agree with the way you are answering questions.

So I take back what I said, because unlike most Muslims explaining Islam you are not taking opinion and making it fact.



I also would like to say that I agree with what you said about American Muslims flollowing Islam better. Just yesterday, I don't know if you have heard of this guy (very well known throughout the american-muslim population) Suhaib Webb, about this very statement.
I try lol,

character limit...
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  #46 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Ah, I see.

Here is my cliam./question.

How does it harm to believe in God?

Let me rephrase, How am I harmed by believing in God.
The only harms that can come of it are those that you allow to happen. Many people can be controlled by religion. It can be used as a political tool to manipulate the masses.

On a more personal note, if you want to try to figure things out as objectively as possible, making such a big assumption couldn't really be justified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
So you only look at the now, thats fine for you, but I prefer to look towards the future and what could be after death.

For me, truth is more important than petty anamalistic desires, I will get to them, but they are not on the top of my list.
I am willing to die this second in order to see the truth, though I dont believe in suicide or asking someone to kill me.

When I die, as stupid as this may sound, it will be the happiest time of my life... I see it like this; Finaly after all this time waiting for the truth it comes within minutes or hours, nonetheless I am about to get a dosage of the truth.

If I may die and turn to dust, then fine, I wont remember anything anyway, but if I am to die and there is another world that invloves God, then I am in luck for believing.
Also if I die and I am sent to another world such as a higher stage of human "evolution" then I would adapt and learn at that stage.
I agree with that. It'd be very nice to learn how close I was; To know how things really work, and compare them to what we know so far. But I wouldn't want to miss out on the chance to discover it for myself. I don't want to be spoon fed answers. I want to find them myself, even if I don't get the full picture right away.
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Islam; Do you know?
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  #47 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Well, I think people are misunderstanding hijab for woman being mistreated. Hijab was made to protect woman. And if I'm not mistaken woman here did not have all their right till the late 19th/early 20th century.

It's good to see other Muslims here.
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Darth Hulk
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  #48 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Explain to me how Santa Clause came to man and made miracles, did clause split the ocean?

I don't know if God caused any miracles, I only have testimonials from people who claim to have seen them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Explain to me how man was able to write the Koran.
Not that this is what happened, but trust me, if you imbibe enough substances not meant for consumption and you can write damn near anything. The existence of a book does not prove anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
I live my life very well, I am gonna make money, enjoy life, have a family, and gain all knowledge possible.
Though, if the time comes that I may experience truth over what we percieve as reality, than I will choose truth.
That's fantastic that you live your life well, so do I. You are going to make money and enjoy life? I am too. Family? Knowledge? Me too. Where you lose me is with this truth business? What truth? How do you know that what's in front of is isn't the truth? It would be a sinister and cruel joke for some higher power to make us live through this existence and only reveal the presence of something more at the end of it. I understand that it's my choice to believe or not believe that that is the case. However, it seems to have as much plausibility as the existence of Santa Clause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
Do not tell me I believe in God for the wrong reasons, my reasons justify themselves with this life and the hereafter.
Believe what you want about your reasons, but there is no way, using the logic of Pascal's Wager, that you will convince me that you aren't religious for self serving reasons.


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Islam; Do you know?
Cursed Lemon
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  #49 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iCeAt
I dont want this to turn into does God exist sorta thing, it gets nowhere.

So please, if you have questions about Islam, as a religion that you can accept the fact that there is or may be a God, then ask.

If you want to know if God exists, then you will never know...
I mean, I guess all of the miracles of Moses and Jesus and countless others were all hoaxes...

I mean, the Koran which just simply cannot be altered due to its unfathomable amount of rythem and meaning, ...is a hoax...

Its up to you to decide if God freaking exists and that is not spiritual talk Cursed, this is common sense and logic. I cannot force you to believe and its unltimately up to what you find to be true or false.
Answer his question.

Also, I have already decided that every religion is dead wrong about God. It was ALWAYS your job to give me reason to think otherwise. So far, you have failed.
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Darth Hulk
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  #50 (permalink) Default 09-25-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
Answer his question.

Also, I have already decided that every religion is dead wrong about God. It was ALWAYS your job to give me reason to think otherwise. So far, you have failed.

I completely agree.



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