I've already said that other religions could have camps...because I don't really believe that any camps like that...the ones directed at kids (You know...boy scouts have them, too....so do muslims...jewish kids have their own summer camps...if athiests wanted to, why not?) and developing their social skills, are dangerous.

What's wrong with your religion (or anti-religion) having one?

You can't "unindoctrinate" kids...is my point.
-All parents are given the right to guide their child.
-Kids question their parents as they get older and get into the real world. Period.
No ifs ands or buts...about religion, science, or cultism. I don't give a f..k, so long as they aren't killing these kids...ya know? We have a counter-action to overzealous religion....it's called the public education system...or one you can pay for...College.

Even if parents are misguiding their kids into believing that santa clause is real...or whatever example you want to use....when they hit reality...they'll learn, and that's how life works.

Survival of the fittest.

Why do I feel like I have to repeat myself with ButtHair constantly? Not to be rude...but I feel that a lot of those comments in your post were ignorant of other things that I've already stated here...and that's why I don't want to keep talking with you. It's repitition.
No thanks. Not trying to be rude, just not interested.

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Well, we obviously have a difference in beliefs.

It's not a religion thing here with me. Im religious. I believe in God. I just think kids that age aren't old enough to attend a camp like that.

I've seen Christian camps, and none are this extreme. I have no problem with these other camps, but this one is different. Are you telling me they didn't tell these kids to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness? I almost guarantee you there was someone there telling these kids to do this. Or atleast suggesting it.

I understand what you're saying, but I think many kids were forced to go to this camp by their parents. And with such a young age, they're going to believe things just because these people or their friends are saying it.

The camp is not that big of a deal. Life will go on. I just think it's a bit too much.

But I guess if the parents want them to go to this, then go for it. I don't care. You wouldn't catch one of my kids at one of these places though. I'm not having my kid brainwashed thinking he can speak tounges.

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And that's your right!

The unfortunate thing is...we can't only give rights to the smart people...or the ones who actually have a clue.

There are just as many parents that make their kids go to those camps...as there are that "Pawn their kids off" to them, too. (Just to point out that there is stupidity in some of the parents...no matter which stupid action they take)
Yeah...there's a good and bad to everything......and yeah...maybe the one in the video was a little crazy........but then again, when aren't kids a little crazy?

I only take all of that with a grain of salt, because I've experienced all of that, personally...and it's not really extreme either way. It's a freaking vacation...lol!! And when you grow up...you start to see that the only times you need to cry and stuff...are when it's called for. You don't just do it because someone suggested it...or even because you were told to.
I know I didn't/don't/haven't ever.

That's why I was like....WTF...why Jesus Camp?
Can't they at least find a camp that actually HURTS kids...like...seriously?
Maybe something that tries to convince young kids to kill themselves, or do things like steal???
I didn't think we were already rid of all of the threats to a younger child that we had to resort to disputing whether or not parents should be parents at all.

And at the very beginning...I said that if a parent sends them off to camp....there are plenty of easy ways to get out of that situation...and no harm need be done.

But yeah...it's up to the parents.
You can't take those rights away, yet.

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Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

But my point of saying I don't agree with it wasn't whether it should be allowed.

Of course it should. It's the parent's choice.

I just think it's ridiculous.

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Remember Rocky II (I think...maybe III) when Apollo goes up against the Russian dude?
When they are getting ready to fight...they each get their introductions and Apollo's is "Living in America"???

As soon as I saw your post...that's what it made me think of, for some reason.

"...it's rediculous."
*Lights*
"Living in America..."

>.>

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Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

Rebal, I know parents have the right to send their kids to these camps - I'm not debating that fact at all. I'm actually for their right to send them to the camp; but that doesn't make the indoctrination of children into a religion right.

Ok...but what do we do with that?

Are you just saying that it's not right?

Cause that's what Northwest said, too...and we both acknowledge that difference.

It may not be right...but that's the right of the parent, and that's all that we can really argue.

We can't really argue whether or not you or I think each other's morals are legitimate or not.

Other than that...I guess we're merely expressing our point of view?

I think it's just fine to let the little ones go to camp.

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Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

I'm fine with camp, just not jesus camp.

Wow, I swear, if I miss one more good thread when its in its prime, than I am quitting this site (probably to the joy of most of you)

In terms of the camps that Rebal and others have described, where they mostly engage in activities and spend time away from the rest of the world to kind of unwind and focus on their spirituality, I have no issue with these.

However, considering that as Christians, one would want to display qualities that would attract others and help them see the importance of serving God, camps such as the one depicted here in this film don't do that.

Perhaps I am bringing up an issue more about evangelicals than the camp itself, but when you think of how children were depicted in the scriptures, they are never illustrated as having fallen out or crying or screaming or any of that. In the Greek scriptures it depicts Jesus as someone who had conduct and mannerisms that children were comfortable with and attracted to and happy and joyful to be around- so obviously he wasn't screaming and going crazy. Also, in the nation of Isreal it mentions how the children would be among their parents as the law was read publicly - listening, not fainting and becoming unable to control themselves.

I guess the whole point I'm trying to make is that while some of these camps may be successful in helping kids escape from society, they fail to do the foremost work of a christian - attract people to the faith of one. While the scriptures do mention that christians live in the world but are no part of the world, it also encourages them to be socially acceptable to those surrounding them without compromising their faith (Paul said become all things to all people) So to an outsider that views churches or camps that behave in this manner, this isn't attractive or informative about christianity, this is repulsive.

If I were a parent, while I might be attracted to a camp that let my kid engage in fun activities, I wouldn't be attracted to a camp that caused them to faint and engage in "praise" as oppossed to actually teaching them something about the bible - which brings up another point, not once in that trailer thru all their "preaching" did you see a bible or anyone reading from the scriptures.

The biggest mistake of some christian parents is that they try to instill values and morals in their children that are taught in a book that they themselves have not or don't read. I also often see this in the debates and discussions surrounding christianity itself. Everyone talks about it and around it, but noone bothers to reference the book itself and consider what it says on these things.

As for other comments in this thread:

People who commit atrocities in the name of Christ are not christians. Really, this should come as no surprise to anyone who has actually read the bible, considering that Jesus himself said that people will come proclaiming works in his name, and he will dismiss them as workers of lawlessness. (Matt. 7)
So individuals who still try to use this as an excuse against christianity are pathetic, because this is a problem with foolish people - not the faith. Almost any law or belief system can be abused and taken out of context.

As far as the "abstinence is the stupidest idea" thing, it never ceases to amaze me how as young individuals we will personally encourage people to engage in as much sexual activity as they can possible have, yet we will not lift one finger to assist them in the faces of the possible consequences. If someone contracts an STD, will you help with their treatment and medication? If someone has an unwanted child, will you purchase formula? While abstinence may seem impractical for many, don't call it stupid considering that those who practice it actually protect themselves from many problems that those of us who don't leave themselves open to.

Sorry for the long post, but I had to catch up, hoping that this thread isnt dead yet.

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Midpoint...I think you forget that you have fans here at H2F...and if you stopped posting...you would be missed!


Although late, your points are appreciated...lol.

I like your noted difference between Evangelicals and Christians, although there are mixtures of the two out there. The ones who take things out of context tend to be more Evangelical than Christian.

And like you said...obviously these are not the ones that we want to represent us...but whether or not they do reference the scripture...do you think a video actually ATTACKING camp is going to show them reading Bible verses in their trailer?
I doubt it.

And your abstinence reference shows a little bit of the maturity in your posts.

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Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie