Jesus Camp - Page 5

Rebal771 · #41 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

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Originally Posted by cleeeeeeeeeetus!

From my experience at these so called "Jesus Camps", I had a ton of fun with other kids who shared common interests as I did. As a matter of fact, their wasn't much focus placed on God or Jesus at all - it was mostly the theme of unification and discovering yourself. Sure, at night and before meals we prayed, and read from the Bible, but nothing like brainwashing occurred... they weren't trying to convert or hammer the idea of God into our heads.

I'm kind of offended, or maybe ashamed, is the right word - that you guys condemn something like this that is aimed at improving the quality of life of those attending and those who are affected by the camp. Just because Christianity isn't something you believe in doesn't mean you have to condemn an activity in its name.

Very well worded at the end.

Your experience was probably similar to a lot of us who have gone to those, and experienced the same things.
I'm pretty excited to see what kind of response this video receives...should it ever really be released. I never thought "Camp" would be considered a "bad thing"...lol.

Please make a note...whoever follows this film....I would like to get any information on it when you get it's release date, or whatever.

MarkedAchilles · #42 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

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Originally Posted by Tormaster

Actually they trick you with go-karts and jet ski rides and then send you to rant about god for 5 hours a day

I have been to a couple of such camps. And I had fun. I love rock climbing and biking and whatnot. Camping rules.

I just didn't do any praying while I was there. I talked to the girls, but that was it.

SideNote: WAY TO GO BRASS!! 2 days unbanned before getting banned again. Gotta be a record for ya.

Socom · #43 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

All those brainwahed kids....

TooMuchButtHair · #44 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

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Originally Posted by Rebal771

Sounds like someone's a little bitter about history.

Not even a little bit.

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I thought Hitler was Jewish or something?
Eh...*shrugs*

In his public speaches, and in his own book, Hitler continually praised god. He thought it was his duty as a Christian to purge the world of the people that killed his lord.

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I can't vouch for all humans out there...but not all of us are pussies.
Some of us have been smart enough to stand on our own two feet even since we were 10. Yes...I have left places that I didn't want to be.

That still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just ask to leave. You insinuate that it's better to get into a fight to get out of camp, rather than just ask to leave. . .

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Sweet! So then what's the point of the video, again? To show how bad they are, and that they should be gotten rid of? Or what?
Mudslinging?

To show the indoctrination of children into something they don't understand.

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Because they teach more than just confidence. Sorry you're ignorant to those other values. *Shrugs*

Your so ignorant you can't even understand what I'm saying! So, you DO believe that you should indoctrinate kids into something they don't understand...

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Umm...isn't that a parent's JOB? I thought you were the one that said something about the learning age of children and all that.

Since when is it the job of the parent to interfere with the objectiveness of their child?

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You just said there was nothing wrong with these camps...what's wrong with the values taught at the these camps.

It's hard not to find something wrong with the values of these camps. They are, in effect, motivating children through something much akin to what the Nazi's did before, and during WWII.

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I guess I'm failing to see our point of conflict...since I thought, originally, it was centered around what these camps are teaching. But you said that was all fine...so what are we discussing, now?

I said there was nothing wrong with equal rights for all religions - I NEVER said that it was okay to indoctrinate a child into anything. You twisted my words.

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You've got very cute ways of "dumbing down" a subject...or turning it into something it's not. They really are cute.

How exactly do I do that? By adressing what you say point-by-point?

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Unfortunately...you tend to stray out there...losing your original point...because now I'm lost.

There is no one point to my posts. I make sure to do my best to answer all the points I can.

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Now I just feel like I'm being preached at by an athiest.

Sorry you feel that way...I guess...

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Athieism is just an excuse to be ignorant. <---Isn't that cute? One day...I'll be just as good as you!!

An excuse to be ignorant? Atheism is an objective rational of the facts (in the empirical sense, anyway). It is just about as far removed from ignorance as one can get.

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I hardly think that these "pulic", "Jesus Camps" teach kids to go blow eachother up. Your weak linkage of terrorism and religion don't really apply in this case...especially when you're talking about modern Christianity. As you've stated, the moderates outweigh the crazies, now-a-days.

WEAK likage of terrorism and religion!? Where have you been for the past several years? Muslim terrorists are waging a HOLY WAR on the non-Muslims of the world!

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Don't you think most of us have seen the wrongs committed by our ancestors in history? Do the Germans still put Jewish kids in concentration camps?
No...but there are still "skin heads" and "neo nazis" running around...are you going to attack all of Europe because they exist, or because of THEIR history?

I wouldn't attack Europe because 'skin heads' are being ass-holes - I'd attack the skin heads.

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Sounds like you're just mad because you didn't have a camp to go to when you were young, and impressionable.

I spent my summers on vacation with my family in Europe, Asia, Hawaii, and the Caribbean.

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"Blowing each other up 10 years later" and "devastating to children" are pretty severe exaggerations on your part, son.

It's not an exaggeration if it's actually happening, and it IS happening. Do you not know what's happening outside your own little world?

Rebal771 · #45 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

Kids like you and I are bad to put in a room together.

Mainly, because neither of us will stop until we make our point.

But, since I feel that this conversation seems to only be getting longer...and nothing is getting solved...I think I'm just going to let you think what you want to think about that video, no matter how twisted or wrong it is.

I know enough about the world around me to understand what the difference between a real THREAT against a child is, and a regular activity that happens to be tied into a religion preaching good morals.

Way to ruin it!

qq1ForLife · #46 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

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Originally Posted by Rebal771

Kids like you and I are bad to put in a room together.

Mainly, because neither of us will stop until we make our point.

But, since I feel that this conversation seems to only be getting longer...and nothing is getting solved...I think I'm just going to let you think what you want to think about that video, no matter how twisted or wrong it is.

I know enough about the world around me to understand what the difference between a real THREAT against a child is, and a regular activity that happens to be tied into a religion preaching good morals.

Way to ruin it!

It seems like you insist religion is the only way to learn good morals. I'd prefer to teach my own kids it was wrong to steal because it was taking what was someone else's instead of telling them if they stole they'd go to Hell. What the video presents are camps that not only teach "morals" but also push some extremes that don't need to be present in this world, especially now with the sh.t in the Middle East. What America does not need right now is a country run by extremist Christians, or everyone's dead.

Most likely when the kids grow older they'll question what they learned before and shrug it off, but for some it leaves an impression that can't be removed. That's what's dangerous about it.

But you can just ignore this post, seeing as you're done with the thread.

cleeeeeeeeeetus! · #47 (**permalink**) 09-20-2006

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Originally Posted by qq1ForLife

It seems like you insist religion is the only way to learn good morals. I'd prefer to teach my own kids it was wrong to steal because it was taking what was someone else's instead of telling them if they stole they'd go to Hell. What the video presents are camps that not only teach "morals" but also push some extremes that don't need to be present in this world, especially now with the crap in the Middle East. What America does not need right now is a country run by extremist Christians, or everyone's dead.

Most likely when the kids grow older they'll question what they learned before and shrug it off, but for some it leaves an impression that can't be removed. That's what's dangerous about it.

But you can just ignore this post, seeing as you're done with the thread.

It's not the only way to learn good morals, but it is one way. BTW, you don't go to Hell for stealing, no matter what your mother taught you.

And to be honest, I'd be done with this thread if I were him too. He's presented his case extremely well, but some people (not you, don't worry) are too stubborn to put down their guard and take others' opinion into account.

Rebal771 · #48 (**permalink**) 09-21-2006

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Originally Posted by qq1ForLife

It seems like you insist religion is the only way to learn good morals. I'd prefer to teach my own kids it was wrong to steal because it was taking what was someone else's instead of telling them if they stole they'd go to Hell. What the video presents are camps that not only teach "morals" but also push some extremes that don't need to be present in this world, especially now with the crap in the Middle East. What America does not need right now is a country run by extremist Christians, or everyone's dead.

Most likely when the kids grow older they'll question what they learned before and shrug it off, but for some it leaves an impression that can't be removed. That's what's dangerous about it.

But you can just ignore this post, seeing as you're done with the thread.

I never said I was done with the thread...just that conversation.
I like to pick my battles...and I wanted to talk with him a little bit about that, until the replys simply got longer and longer and longer, and I didn't feel he was taking ANY of it very lightly.

While yes...it's understood that there are more ideas than JUST morals being taught to those kids. They're being presented with the history of Jesus and stuff, too.......but the idea is teaching these kids how to deal with one another and have a good time, while supervised, in a Christian environment. One thing they teach around there is learning to help one another, kinda like the camp helps all the parents out for a week or so.

You, as a parent, SHOULD teach your kids right from wrong.

I'm not saying that these places are the ONLY places to learn morals...but the topic at hand is Jesus Camps.

The video said that Jesus Camps are brainwashing camps...or something to that effect, and I call bull-sh*t.

Sure...it may not be the ONLY place that you can learn the golden rule...but calling them brainwashing camps just because they teach Jesus is pretty rediculous, you know?

I don't call Muslim camps brainwashing camps, just because they teach that God is prounounced "Allah".

Not all of us who went to those turned out to be Religious Extremists.

Look at myself, Bishop, or even Achilles.
We're all fine, and we went to those!
I'm basically saying that the video has no basis on which to stand to make a full, concentrated effort against these camps...and by trying...they are simply trying to draw a line, and make people pick sides...just as a few of us in here have had to do.

But just because the event is tied in with religion...doesn't mean it creates crazy suicide bombers...so what's the point of the video?
To divide the population, and that's a bad thing.