The Case for Agnosticism - Page 9

Cursed Lemon · #81 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebal771

I'm not trying to Judge you guys or anything...so please don't take that personally. It's just my general view on Agnostics/Agnosticism...not the people that believe that crap.

I understand that an agnostic is refusing to rule out any possiblities...but a Christian can do the same thing, without being a fence rider.

An athiest can do the same thing, without being a fence rider.

They are saying that they "can't" make a choice based on all the information out there...and that's bull-sh.t. At least I think so. Maybe I am just a little extreme when it comes to Agnosticism. There is a ton of information out there supporting one cause or another...and I find that by not choosing anything...you are inherantly deciding against religions (since you are not going through any processes to state that you "believe" one of them.)

THEREFORE...you are considered a non-believer by all religions except athiesm, since it technically is just a belief. Non-believers are non-believers whether you're a fence rider...or a straight up "anti-" fanatic. Since they are placed in that group...I just consider them ignorant athiests, and move on.

It's not really my problem...but I do find the entire belief to be somewhat p.ssy. Sorry if I think that choosing not to choose (in reguards to life after death and the existence there of) where you end up is retarded...but you get the same treatment as the people who choose AGAINST it...so why not just be one way or the other?

You are allowed to change your mind. You are allowed to change beliefs. But choosing not to choose is like not voting because you don't know who will win.

Just my opinion of that thought process. Agnosts are still cool (and generally smart) people.

EDIT...
And really quickly...just because I close any possible personal belief in the 'agnostic' area...that doesn't mean that I'll shut out everyone as morons. I just think that the "case" behind agnosticism is pretty weak. It just seems too much like p.ssy sh.t to me. That's all.

Well duh. BECAUSE there is such a huge amount of information out there, we don't have any reason to believe one side over the other (this is concerning creator vs. no creator; I have made up my mind concerning religion and science).

There is nothing wrong with being a "fence-rider". We are out for knowledge, not self-interest concerning being "judged" and the afterlife.

If a prosecutor says "we have fingerprints all over the weapon", and the defense says "we have an alibi with 20 witnesses", are you going to tell the jurors "just pick one and stop being pussies about it"?

Rebal771 · #82 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

Well duh. BECAUSE there is such a huge amount of information out there, we don't have any reason to believe one side over the other (this is concerning creator vs. no creator; I have made up my mind concerning religion and science).

There is nothing wrong with being a "fence-rider". We are out for knowledge, not self-interest concerning being "judged" and the afterlife.

If a prosecutor says "we have fingerprints all over the weapon", and the defense says "we have an alibi with 20 witnesses", are you going to tell the jurors "just pick one and stop being pussies about it"?

LOL...wow...very entertaining analogy.

Ok...at the very beginning...I said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

You guys are babies who don't want to make a decision.

That's fine...when you're young (assuming you get to be old), because there's a lot to learn out there. But you don't know when your life will end...so I'd suggest making a decision of where to put that faith pretty soon.

The point is this...I understand that you guys may not have reached your pinnacle of knowledge yet...and I understand that the jury may have a lot of evidence to go over........but at some point...you have to make a decision, or you get lumped in with people who made a decision to stand against.

We all die...we just don't know when. No one can disagree with that.

But I find that a lot of Agnostics (while in theory...makes sense) aren't looking for an answer. They are the jury member that falls asleep while the trial goes on. Then...the trial's over, and it's time to make a decision.

So yeah...at some point...you have to stop being a p.ssy and pick one or the other. Either pick the right answer or the wrong answer...cause if you don't pick one or the other...you'll most assuradly get lumped in with the wrong answers.

That's all I'm saying. You got some time (don't know how much) to figure it out...but I hope you do before it's figured out for you.

p.ssy.

Cursed Lemon · #83 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebal771

The point is this...I understand that you guys may not have reached your pinnacle of knowledge yet...and I understand that the jury may have a lot of evidence to go over........but at some point...you have to make a decision, or you get lumped in with people who made a decision to stand against.

We all die...we just don't know when. No one can disagree with that.

But I find that a lot of Agnostics (while in theory...makes sense) aren't looking for an answer. They are the jury member that falls asleep while the trial goes on. Then...the trial's over, and it's time to make a decision.

So yeah...at some point...you have to stop being a p.ssy and pick one or the other. Either pick the right answer or the wrong answer...cause if you don't pick one or the other...you'll most assuradly get lumped in with the wrong answers.

That's all I'm saying. You got some time (don't know how much) to figure it out...but I hope you do before it's figured out for you.

p.ssy.

Unlike the jury, we don't have anything at stake regarding our decision, nor do we have a set time frame (besides our lifespan). But don't think we're not looking for a side to stand on. We would just not prefer to be wrong, or rather, we would not prefer to leave the chance open for being wrong. We DO want to come to a conclusion, so we pile in information as much as we can. We don't ignore circumstantial evidence, but as it stands, nobody has provided a convincing arguement to us (like I said before; creator vs. no creator for me personally).

What you're telling us is that we should stay on one side of the line as a precautionary measure, until evidence arises that either supports or disproves our position. As an agnostic, I simply don't see the point it taking a temporary side.

Rebal771 · #84 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

Unlike the jury, we don't have anything at stake regarding our decision, nor do we have a set time frame (besides our lifespan). But don't think we're not looking for a side to stand on. We would just not prefer to be wrong, or rather, we would not prefer to leave the chance open for being wrong. We DO want to come to a conclusion, so we pile in information as much as we can. We don't ignore circumstantial evidence, but as it stands, nobody has provided a convincing arguement to us (like I said before; creator vs. no creator for me personally).

What you're telling us is that we should stay on one side of the line as a precautionary measure, until evidence arises that either supports or disproves our position. As an agnostic, I simply don't see the point it taking a temporary side.

Well...obviously, you wouldn't look at it as a "temporary" side...but now that you make that point...it does open a little bit more light on the whole position.

I guess I can see how you "wouldn't want to be wrong", because I'm pretty much the same way. I don't like people who back-track on statements and stuff like that...so it does make a little more sense.

And I guess it's just a little presumptuous to think that everyone out there will receive the same evidence that I've seen (now that I think about it).

But at the same time...nothing will ever support or disprove an agnostic. It will simply sway you one way or the other. The only other beef that I have with it now, is that you don't know how long you live...so your time to find the evidence, compile it, reason with yourself is a mystery.

One of these answers is right. I guess you are one of few agnostics that I see searching around for proof of one side or the other...so I will definately be a little more open minded when approaching them in the future.

...but as far as the trial...and anything being at stake with your decision........boy, you could be really far off. That is a very athiestic statement (not to say it's bad...eventhough I think it is...lol) to say that there is nothing beyond death/trial. There's some faith in that statment.

As a Christian who sees the struggle...I have to say that I'll pray for you...eventhough I know it will piss you off. Part of my job is to reach out to you guys...and praying is part of it.

But I will definately be a little less offensive to the pussies.

Because I definately relate to quite a bit of that. I just don't find it a wise decision.

Personally...what I've experienced has swayed me over to the Christian side so much so...that if all of this fell through, I'd be done. But that doesn't mean that if God was disproven that I wouldn't accept the reality. (Like...actual proof. I don't even know what the f..k we would possibly have to prove that there was never God.) Cause my evidence...although very persuading...is not necessarily tangible and understandable by anyone other than me. It's pretty personal.

But if I found out that all this was meaningless...I'd probably just kill myself anyway. And not one of those easy injections or hanging myself. I'd make sure to go out with a bang...and like...OD on 15 different drugs at once. Cause seriously...if there's no afterlife...this place blows, and so do humans. And if there's no point...then I don't have one either.
Nuff said.

Cursed Lemon · 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebal771

Well...obviously, you wouldn't look at it as a "temporary" side...but now that you make that point...it does open a little bit more light on the whole position.

I guess I can see how you "wouldn't want to be wrong", because I'm pretty much the same way. I don't like people who back-track on statements and stuff like that...so it does make a little more sense.

And I guess it's just a little presumptuous to think that everyone out there will receive the same evidence that I've seen (now that I think about it).

But at the same time...nothing will ever support or disprove an agnostic. It will simply sway you one way or the other. The only other beef that I have with it now, is that you don't know how long you live...so your time to find the evidence, compile it, reason with yourself is a mystery.

One of these answers is right. I guess you are one of few agnostics that I see searching around for proof of one side or the other...so I will definately be a little more open minded when approaching them in the future.

...but as far as the trial...and anything being at stake with your decision........boy, you could be really far off. That is a very athiestic statement (not to say it's bad...eventhough I think it is...lol) to say that there is nothing beyond death/trial. There's some faith in that statment.

As a Christian who sees the struggle...I have to say that I'll pray for you...eventhough I know it will piss you off. Part of my job is to reach out to you guys...and praying is part of it.

But I will definately be a little less offensive to the pussies.

Because I definately relate to quite a bit of that. I just don't find it a wise decision.

Personally...what I've experienced has swayed me over to the Christian side so much so...that if all of this fell through, I'd be done. But that doesn't mean that if God was disproven that I wouldn't accept the reality. (Like...actual proof. I don't even know what the f..k we would possibly have to prove that there was never God.) Cause my evidence...although very persuading...is not necessarily tangible and understandable by anyone other than me. It's pretty personal.

But if I found out that all this was meaningless...I'd probably just kill myself anyway. And not one of those easy injections or hanging myself. I'd make sure to go out with a bang...and like...OD on 15 different drugs at once. Cause seriously...if there's no afterlife...this place blows, and so do humans. And if there's no point...then I don't have one either.
Nuff said.

That's why agnostics make great scientists.

Nobody should be sure of ANYTHING, because there's always a chance. We base our lives around probability, because nothing is absolute. So basically, we live by how often we are right.

Besides that, my mind won't let me commit to a side when there's even a remote chance of the opposite happening. That's why I can't subscribe to "faith". I don't start my truck every day because I have "faith" it will start, rather I'm weighing the odds. I could tie this into the jury analogy from before; in that situation, would you put your "faith" in your decision? Would you wholeheartedly accept it as the truth, or would you admit to yourself that you only chose against the odds (or worse, you practically flipped a coin)?

And living's not so bad. I guess.

Rebal771 · #86 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

That's why agnostics make great scientists.

Nobody should be sure of ANYTHING, because there's always a chance. We base our lives around probability, because nothing is absolute. So basically, we live by how often we are right.

Yeah...good points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

Besides that, my mind won't let me commit to a side when there's even a remote chance of the opposite happening. That's why I can't subscribe to "faith". I don't start my truck every day because I have "faith" it will start, rather I'm weighing the odds. I could tie this into the jury analogy from before; in that situation, would you put your "faith" in your decision? Would you wholeheartedly accept it as the truth, or would you admit to yourself that you only chose against the odds (or worse, you practically flipped a coin)?

And living's not so bad. I guess.

Typically, mine wouldn't either. But I hold my mind second to my soul. Somethings, although incomprehensible, I can just feel are right. No idea why...no idea how...it just is. Maybe you've never had that.

I think that my faith is based on several things including the "odds" and the fact that a lot of my morals, and how I think people should live, fall into the same pattern as those that follow the Bible. Not to mention...I think Christianity is the only way that allows a Human to be a human. Everyone f..ks up. Even juries.

I'm not sure that I understand the "truck" comment or what having faith to start it has to do with anything.

My faith as far as I'm concerned, is pretty much that I have faith in the fact that Jesus Christ is my savior from this wretched world. If he's not, and there is no God...then I trust no one else anyway...so I may as well just end it now. I have faith in nothing else but Jesus.

I think everyone has faith in something...whether it be a person, a religion, the future, money, or their significant other. It's just in how you use it. Where you put it.

Mine hasn't failed me yet. It's kept my life moving forward...hell...it kept me alive. It keeps me sane in such a crazy, f..ked-up place. Drugs used to help me escape for a while...but you eventually have to come back. And facing reality is never fun.

I don't know...the more I know...the more I don't want to know. When I was little...I didn't expect the world to be this f..ked up. And I am continually de/impressed by how much worse its getting. I'm starting to wonder why it's not so obvious to everyone else that we ALL need saving. Especially seeing the generations coming up behind me. I mean...I guess everyone thinks that the kids today are worse than the kids yesterday...but seriously. My Jr High got turned into a Jr.prison because of all the sh.t that happened the year or two after I left. Kids were caught f..king....IN THE HALLS. Razorblades and Knives at school all of a sudden??!?! Here come the doorlocks, metal detectors, security cameras...HIDDEN CAMERAS....rediculous.

The worst thing that was going around when I was in middle school was either weed or mono. Now it's coke(aine) and chlamydia (sp?). It's like...I don't know. I just don't understand how anyone lasts without a faith in something. I would have quit long ago...and I'm only 20.

MarkedAchilles · #87 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

I don't have faith in anything.

I get by on Chicken, Halo, facts, beer, and working out.

Rebal771 · #88 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles

I don't have faith in anything.

I get by on Chicken, Halo, facts, beer, and working out.

Maybe you have faith in the fact that those will always make you happy, and that they will always be around.

Lets say we eliminated Chicken and Beer.
WHAT SAY YOU!?!?

Just kidding....

I don't know man. None of that interests me to the point that I want to work 40 hour weeks just so I can keep consuming those things (although they are pretty cool in their respective times). It would get old after a while...at least for me.

MarkedAchilles · #89 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebal771

Maybe you have faith in the fact that those will always make you happy, and that they will always be around.

Lets say we eliminated Chicken and Beer.
WHAT SAY YOU!?!?

Just kidding....

I don't know man. None of that interests me to the point that I want to work 40 hour weeks just so I can keep consuming those things (although they are pretty cool in their respective times). It would get old after a while...at least for me.

OH YOU GO TO HELL!! GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!!

Chicken and BEER????

But yeah. . . I guess what actually drives me in life would be to be successful, learn every day, make the little woman happy and provide for our future.

Not necessarily in that order.

PS: still can't believe you just said eliminate beer. . . I couldn't get through the next 4-6 years of school w/o beer.

Rebal771 · #90 (**permalink**) 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkedAchilles

OH YOU GO TO HELL!! GO TO HELL AND YOU DIE!!!

Chicken and BEER????

But yeah. . . I guess what actually drives me in life would be to be successful, learn every day, make the little woman happy and provide for our future.

Not necessarily in that order.

PS: still can't believe you just said eliminate beer. . . I couldn't get through the next 4-6 years of school w/o beer.

So Budweiser is your God?

........at least he has better commercials than my God's. (Some of these churches really should stick to Sunday services)

I'm pretty sure you remember the story where Jesus turned the water into wine....? You're allowed to enjoy it sometimes.

Hell...he'll even provide it, if the timing's right...
(Did you see Cheppelle's take on it?)

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