Oh so tempting...must resist... ah forget it...

Well... you did say earlier that you would "prove" agnosticism...and now you choose to make an assumption...rather odd.

Odd that you choose to use an assumption to prove something... but even more so because you choose to use an assumption that is a little fishy.

The thing that I think you've sort of arbitrarily decided is that all evidence must be scientific evidence. All the evidence you want must be able to be tested in a laboratory.

Now scientific evidence is certainly valuable, but it is not the only way. To say the only evidence you will accept is scientific evidence is to be rather intolerant of other valid schools of thought.

For example, suppose you are a judge. Into your courtroom walk three hundred witnesses claiming they saw a murder. Now, you demand scientific evidence... nobody provides it... if we follow the same reasoning that you've been using up to this point, you are obliged to send a murderer onto the streets.

Equally perfect lack of evidence...

Equally perfect lack of evidence...

I might be able to understand you if you were speaking exclusively about scientific evidence... but you seem to still be disregarding legal and historical evidence.

Y'know... maybe I'm not entirely understanding what you mean when you say the word "evidence." I think before this discussion can advance, you've got to lay out what you mean when you use the word "evidence."

So...

You've seen God?

Interesting. I don't believe you.

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I can not merely explain what this website can so I can only ask for you to visit this. Please do not let ignorance get in the way of intelligence. Not saying you are ignorant, but what many intelligent people do is that they force them self to believe that because they are so intelligent they can't believe in something they cannot see, but I say to those people please read it because you are intelligent.

I love this site.

It is from an athiest who became a christan and has some very nice theories if I may say that are very insightful.

http://www.godandscience.org/

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The quality of decision is like the well-timed swoop of a falcon which enables it to strike and destroy its victim
Sun Tzu

Interesting site in deed. Well layed out and written. Has some good stuff in there.

Unitil . . . you get to this section.

Supernatural Evidence Scientific Evidence for Answered Prayer
Scientific Studies that Show a Positive Effect of Religion on Health

This is not supernatural evidence. Cats and dogs in the hospitals give patients a better recovery as well. Its just your body working in a better fassion. Stress of anger acts on your body even harder when you are sick so feeling good is a help in any hospital. Happiness heals.

This section I could have a field day with:

Evolution/
Design Is the Chemical Origin of Life (Abiogenesis) a Realistic Scenario?
Man, Created in the Image of God- How Man is Unique Among All Other Creatures on Earth

Lots of well blocked out thoughts and figures there and I will go through any of them that you want and show to anyone that cares how they are wrong and why. Not tell, I will actually show you. Just pick one if anyone is actually interested.

I have also really enjoyed the Biology section. It could use some clarification as well. Lots of genetic information being swung around. I would love to take a crack at one of those you like too.


The rest of the site seemed to be about the same. I cannot talk with authority on the space part. Out of my reach so If anyone else that happens to be in that field wants to take a crack at it I will handle the medical stats and Evolution origin of earth part.

I do like that this site at least has a stand on the age of the earth that I could agree with. And this site adresses a lot of ideas and problems with religion that are unexplainable. The same with scientific theories. Fun to jump around in it.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section

My Facebook thing. . .

Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/movies/81621-movies-you-need-see-before-you-die-weekly-review.html

It's funny you should say that, because I never said anything about proving agnosticism.There is a difference between proving agnosticism and proving that it's the best choice. Agnosticism makes no metaphysical claims to prove. You can only prove that it is wrong to choose anything else, and that is effectively accomplished by demonstrating a lack of evidence for the other choices. My assumption about the lack of evidence is not baseless, and I find it very odd indeed that you would disregard the sentence right after the one you quoted. Take another look at it.So, the assumption holds up as long as no evidence is presented.

Since when is courtroom testimony proof? Are you going to claim that there is absolutely no chance of three hundred witnesses lying? What if their families were threatened? What if they were offered bribes? Even if legal and historical evidence was sufficient, agnosticism would still be the only choice. There are lots of Christians who would testify about the miracles God has performed, but there are lots of Muslims who would testify about the miracles Allah has performed. The same can be said for any religion. There's always tons of people swearing that their religion is right, so which one should I choose? Maybe the one with the most followers?

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I, personally, find the case for agnosticism to be weak-ass, half-hearted athiest/christian/muslim/whatever. You guys are babies who don't want to make a decision.

That's fine...when you're young (assuming you get to be old), because there's a lot to learn out there. But you don't know when your life will end...so I'd suggest making a decision of where to put that faith pretty soon.

As a truthful Agnostic...you obviously understand that you do not contain all of the knowledge in the world. You don't know everything. So somewhere out there...amongst all the knowledge that you don't know...there is a possiblity of things going one way or another. You guys just refuse to put faith in ANYTHING, and choose to stay ignorant until something slams you in the face.

I consider you guys the fence riders...and I'm pretty sure religion addresses fence riders.

At least...I know Christianity does. But we won't go into that.

Anyway...as far as any real religion goes...there is a process to become a "believer". Until you go through that process...you are not a part of that belief. (Although Atheism simply requires you to say "What God?")

THUS...if you say you are agnostic...you are essentially saying that you refuse to make a decision. By NOT making a decision...(or choosing not to choose) you are considered a non-believer of any religion (even athiest straight up say..."There is no God."). If this is so...you are basically an ignorant athiest. Maybe not in every term...but that's how you would be defined and labeled.

I find many Agnostics to be lazy f..ks who don't want to do their own search for what the answer is. They typically sit around, doing their earthly routine, waiting for someone to come to THEM with an answer. This may not be true for you...but many people like you are this way.

The point is...if you're an agnostic...you're being a baby. The knowledge is out there...and there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to choose one or the other...you just gotta do a little digging. Your heart will typically lead you in the direction that you lean towards anyway...but I think you guys should quit being so indecisive.

While I should be trying to witness to you guys about Christianity in this moment...I think the point is pretty clear that you just need to get off the fence...one way or the other. Agnosticism is self-inflicted ignorance.

That's what I think, anyway. I may be biased towards Christianity...but seriously...at least if you're Muslim/Athiest/Jewish...you believe SOMETHING, and then we can just argue. Agnosts just tend to sound like the ditzy cheerleaders going "Oh...I didn't know that" or "Really?" or "Huh...hmmm...interesting."
C'mon now...

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Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

Holy crap man do you even know what an agnostic is?

Basically its that they believe that since ther is no evidence for god or against it you cannot rule him out.

You believe in something that has no evidence supporting it, doesn't that make all religious people crazy? He has made a decision, to keep open the possibility that he may be wrong.

You are the one that has closed you mind to other possibilities. This action is infectious to other people and other areas of life. Close you mind to one thing and you will to another. Not a great way to live.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section

My Facebook thing. . .

Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/showthread.php?t=81621

No, we're saying we CAN'T make a decision. And I think that's all that needs to be said.

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I'm not trying to Judge you guys or anything...so please don't take that personally. It's just my general view on Agnostics/Agnosticism...not the people that believe that crap.

I understand that an agnostic is refusing to rule out any possiblities...but a Christian can do the same thing, without being a fence rider.

An athiest can do the same thing, without being a fence rider.

They are saying that they "can't" make a choice based on all the information out there...and that's bull-sh.t. At least I think so. Maybe I am just a little extreme when it comes to Agnosticism. There is a ton of information out there supporting one cause or another...and I find that by not choosing anything...you are inherantly deciding against religions (since you are not going through any processes to state that you "believe" one of them.)

THEREFORE...you are considered a non-believer by all religions except athiesm, since it technically is just a belief. Non-believers are non-believers whether you're a fence rider...or a straight up "anti-" fanatic. Since they are placed in that group...I just consider them ignorant athiests, and move on.

It's not really my problem...but I do find the entire belief to be somewhat p.ssy. Sorry if I think that choosing not to choose (in reguards to life after death and the existence there of) where you end up is retarded...but you get the same treatment as the people who choose AGAINST it...so why not just be one way or the other?

You are allowed to change your mind. You are allowed to change beliefs. But choosing not to choose is like not voting because you don't know who will win.

Just my opinion of that thought process. Agnosts are still cool (and generally smart) people.


EDIT...
And really quickly...just because I close any possible personal belief in the 'agnostic' area...that doesn't mean that I'll shut out everyone as morons. I just think that the "case" behind agnosticism is pretty weak. It just seems too much like p.ssy sh.t to me. That's all.

__________________
Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

Agnosticism is fine and dandy with me. My choice. MINE.

If there is a god and he does pre-set these things then he chose for me to be agnostic.

I have no problem with that. But I choose to put faith into myself and myself only. I get a lot more done that way.

But hey, if Christianity is true then that's how god made me. He told me, "Keep asking the difficult questions."

If "God" has total power over me, "except free will" (<---Bullsh.t right there) then he made me the way I am, I choose to be able to choose. I choose to not choose.

Pretty much heres what i'm trying to say. If any religion is true than "A God" gave me the power to choose. By doing that he either A. Condemned me to hell, or B. Decided to let me live my life. If he condemned me to hell than I why should I worry about it?

You preach, i'll keep asking Who is god, what is god, where is god, why is god, how is god, and what if god isn't. Maybe i'll decide later.

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I dominate your face.