Don't get me started on Morality!!
Don't get me started on Thermodynamics!!
I took 2 semesters of Chemistry at a University, and I know a crapload about thermodynamics and entropy. This is actually the second law of thermodynamics. The first is the conservation of energy.

Ekattan, enthalpy is a completely different thing, not really relevant here. It's basically dealing with internal energy of a system. Yes, it does have some bearing on thermodynamics, but realistically, entropy has more importance.

Back on topic, Agnostics will always be on a quest for truth, external usually, in the form of physical evidence that God exists, however, as we have discussed numerous time Cursed Lemon, no such evidence exists, aside from historical accounts of Jesus Christ, which, in my opinion should be more than enough to suit your fancy!!

Have a nice day!! You are all in my prayers.

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I would actually agree on the morals thing. It is one of the social tendency that has allowed us to live together. They may be different in different places but they allow for the successfull cohesion of a group to give them an advantage over others or simply to allow that groups formation.

Not totally explained by the evolution of the social group but definately an inheritable quality.

As for the whole laws thing. Laws are not facts. They are general descriptions of something that happens.

Law of gravity -says gravity exists
Theory of gravity - how it works

Laws are almost trivial in matter of absolute proof. Theories give proof. Not laws.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section

My Facebook thing. . .

Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/movies/81621-movies-you-need-see-before-you-die-weekly-review.html

It just doesn't go anywhere. I'm unsatisfied with the logic swirling around in my head.

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I'm saying that all faith-based religions have important similarities and differences. The similarity that I'm focusing on is the justification, which can only be faith. So you're saying that the Bible isn't completely accurate? You're saying that some of the passages came from mankind and are incorrect? How do you know which ones are wrong and which ones are right? Because certain passages make sense to you? (I'll address that in a second.)

I don't believe in evolution or thermodynamics. I accept them as the most reasonable theories science has developed on the subjects. I think that they're probably right because they have observational evidence backing them up, and I don't accept them as ultimate truth for the same reason I don't accept Christianity as ultimate truth: no proof.

True agnostics realize that they haven't figured anything out. I say "I don't know". I understand that I have not figured this life out. Atheists, Christians, and people who believe in any other religion are the ones who think they have figured out the most closely guarded secrets of the universe.

So, you know that Jesus Christ was real because it makes sense to you? If that is all it takes, then Allah is just as real as Jesus, and so is Vishnu and witches for that matter. Different things make sense to different people. Why are you so special that what makes sense to you is more right than what makes sense to someone else?

Like Cursed Lemon said, God killed a lot of people-What's the metaphor in this one? "Kids, don't make fun of Christians or God will send bears to brutally kill you!" Are you sure it's not a literal story? I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Jesus and the God of the Old Testament, the one who sent two bears to maul dozens of children, are one and the same according to the New Testament. That is, of course, unless you can pick and choose what to believe from the Bible, and I'm not sure why you'd have the authority to do that as an imperfect human being.

Actually, thieves and murderers do validate the point entirely. If everyone felt that it was wrong to steal and kill, there would be no such thing as a murderer or a thief. Morality, like many aspects of the human condition, is a product of genetics and environment, and is generally derived from what's good for society. It's no coincidence that societies in which the majority of people murder and steal from each other don't last very long. The Holocaust could not have been perpetrated against the Jewish people if there was an objective morality applicable to all mankind. Germans became convinced that it was alright to kill Jews because the morals they originally learned from their parents and from society in general were replaced wholesale by new ones that allowed for such atrocities. This can be accomplished with anything and anyone. If you were to isolate a boy from the world when he was growing up and you told him that rape is acceptable, he would commit rape every time he felt a tickle in his pants.

I admit the possibility that my views will change in the future because I don't know that they won't. The thing about agnosticism is that I am ready for those changes. Unlike faith-based religions and atheism, my mind is always open to new possibilities. What you seem to be missing is that Christianity, like religion in general, is the quickest way to close a person's mind. If you're a true Christian, you believe that there is no chance whatsoever that Hinduism is right. Doesn't that mean your mind is closed to Hinduism? Mine isn't.

The burden to disprove God is for atheists, not for agnostics. Agnostics don't claim that there's no God, they simply say, "I don't know."

Alright, I'll rephrase. Why is your faith right while other faiths are wrong? (That's what I meant by better.)

You didn't put your faith in Jesus because of the immense suffering He endured for you. You have faith that Jesus died on the cross. Before you disagree with me, did you believe that Jesus was crucified before you became a Christian?

Nope, I still don't see it.

Aren't you convinced that anyone who has rejected your God will spend eternity in Hell? That sounds pretty arrogant to me.

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You reference in 2 Kings is not intimidating, if that was your intent. And no, it does not mean that God can be cruel and go about killing innocent youths for simply making fun of someone. Let me give you the scenario for this, becasue I know you have used it before, but I have done some research on this particular topic.

Calling an old man a "Baldy" was generally a term used back in that day indicating someone of leprosy. Lepors were outcasts. No one could touch them, no one could talk to them, no one could associate themselves with lepors. If a man with a family was found to have leprosy, he had to completely give up his family ties and no longer live with them, he couldent communicate with them, and basically he lived on a day to day basis, hopefully able to simply get some food if he was lucky.

On top of this, Elisha was a very well known Prophet, one of the few prophets in the world at that time. It's almost safe to say that he was more prestigious than Elijah himself. Therefore, when somebody called him a "Baldy" it was derogatory. Let me remind you as well, when something is placed in the Bible, it's because it bears significance to the power of God.

Why my faith is right and others are wrong:
Why do I believe my faith is better? I put my faith in a God that can overcome death! How's that for an answer?

My faith regarding suffering of Christ:
Initially, I put my faith in him because he died for me, then, and only then did I realize what suffering he went through. Actually, I even researched into Crucifixion and the process of it. It is, considered by most forensic scientists, and torture specialists to be the most painful and cruel type of punishment ever inflicted upon mankind.

The incredible thing as well, Jesus was probably the most tortured individual in the history of the world, and I will explain why. First, he was beaten 39 times with bamboo like sticks, in the back, face, and chest regions. Secondly, he was whipped and beaten with a stick, with leather straps and shards of glass on the end of it 39 times, on the front and back, and probably the face. Those thorns placed on his head were most likely 2-3 inch thorns, puncturing all flesh above the eye lobe. He was stripped naked, forced to walk about a half mile, carrying approximately a 250 pound cross, in the condition he was in, to the top of the hill where crucifixion took place. There they nailed a single nail into the feet, where they were bound together, then one nail in each hand, after which he was hoisted upwards on display.

When you are nailed in an upright position such as that, you actually die from suffocation, rather than blood loss most of the time, because every breath of air required you to physically, while still being nailed into the cross, lift your body to recieve air into the lungs. Jesus lasted, the Bible says, basically all day, until it became dark, and finally he died.

You really have no comprehension of how Jesus Christ actually died. He died a condemned man's death, the most cruelest punishment ever known to man, the God of the Universe. And he did it for you and for me.

Me Arrogant?:
You said I seem to be arrogant because I believe that my God is the only path, and all others will perish. I'm not arrogant by any means. I try my best to present to people the gospel and let them choose for themselves whether they want to accept Christ or not.

Don't pull that crap on me about being tolerant either of other religions. You never see Christians nowadays, or Jews nowadays going out and attacking one another, and you never see Christians attacking Muslims nowadays. However, the opposite occurs where Muslim is a very militant religion. The Bible clearly, without any shadow of a doubt, says "Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have eternal life." I believe people are capable of change, however, the Bible is clear in what it states, that those who do not accept Christ will perish eternally.

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Well of course all religions are similar that why they are categorized as religions. They both have rules that you follow for an eternal life or reencarnation.

I'm not saying that Jesus made sense, I'm saying that what he preached is our intention for being on this earth. Many focus on death and the after life while earth is more like a hell on earth cause our values and morals are shot to sh.t.

And all murderers and thieves admit to their wrong doings and even regret them. Only the mentally handicap don't have this remorse.

You are stereotyping christians as a single group of close minded, literally taking very word of the bible. I never said I was a christian, just that Jesus Christ did exist and do all those things that the bible says. And yes the bible does have it exagerations or mistakes, it was written by man wasn't it, therefore by default it can't be perfect.

Well agnostics just have to say "I don't know that there is a God" that is why you don't believe cause there is no proof. But there is no proof that there isn't a God either. So being agnostic is really being a cynic and having a glass half full perspective.

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Sorry, but no the prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) was not a violent person. You actually believe what is written in that encyclopedia? The encyclopedia's statement was just an attempt to downgrade Islam. Did you consider the author's agenda. And no muslims are not terrorists who go around killin people. If you believe that then you have been brainwashed by the media.

Heres what a few NON-MUSLIM people had to say about such lies about Muhammad(peace be upon him):

non-muslim quotes (scroll down a bit)

As Muslims, we DO believe that the Bible is word of God, yet we believe that the Christians have altered it. That is why you will find MANY editions of the Bible. We believe that the Quran is also God's words, but the Quran has never been altered and will never be altered. Theres ONLY ONE Quran.

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gamertag: Enigma 90
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and they did...

Yes, they are accurate and scientific. And scientists DO agree that the geology of mountains and description of human embryonic development are portrayed very accurately in the Quran. The website even has videos of Scientists ADMITTING to this.

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gamertag: Enigma 90
Send me a f/r for MLG FFA (make sure to include mlg ffa in the text)

and they did...

Sorry if i'm repeating anything, I didnt read all the posts because I wanted to respond to this.

I went to a catholic high school and grew up in surrounded by catholicism. During high school i took various courses about religion and during one there was a memorable analogy that i still remember...

Suppose you are walking in the desert and you come across a pile of watch-parts. There are gears and little mechanisms all over the place scattered about. The next day you walk back to the pile of watch-parts and you see lying there, not a pile of parts, but a fully functioning watch. Now what are you going to think to yourself? Did all these parts, by pure chance and coincidence all align and form a watch? Or did someone, who you did not see, put the watch together?

Does this analogy prove or disprove anything? No, it doesn't. But it's a nice little analogy.

What's so special about that? Why does preaching our intention for being on this planet make Jesus right and Muhammad wrong? And you did say that Jesus made sense.That's an awful generalization. What evidence do you have to back it up? A lack of remorse is not necessarily due to mental defect.

No, I am making a generalization about people who have accepted one religion and, by definition, closed their mind to anything that conflicts with it. I never said or implied that every Christian takes the Bible literally. I could have sworn you explicitly said you were a Christian months ago. I might be wrong, but you did say that you believe in the Bible and in Jesus. If that doesn't make you Christian, nothing does.

My question was, "How do you know which ones are wrong and which ones are right?" You did not give me an answer.

I don't know why you keep saying that there's no disproof of God. I've already conceded that, and it doesn't conflict with my beliefs. Wittgenstein’s famous argument sums up agnosticism pretty nicely: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." I don't claim that God doesn't exist because there's no proof, and I don't claim that God does exist because there's no proof.

Telling me that my reference to II Kings was not intimidating did not intimidate me, if that was your intent. And no, my intent was not intimidation. By the way, that reference was made towards ekattan, not you.

Thank you for the history lesson. That had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

So God was justified in sending the bears to maul the forty-two kids because they used a derogatory term in reference to one of God's prophets?

It's pretty crappy. The Greek Gods did some pretty incredible stuff, too.

Wrong again. You have faith that Jesus died for your sins. Before you became a Christian, you couldn't have believed that Jesus died for you on the cross. When dealing with whether or not Jesus died for you on the cross, the only thing you have to go by is the Bible, and that counts for evidence of Jesus dying for your sins just as much as the Quran does for Islam being correct (read: it doesn't count for crap).

You're actually not the first person to tell me the manner in which Jesus died.

I consider you to be arrogant because you have closed your mind to anything that conflicts with Christianity.

That was completely irrelevant.

How many scientists? Three? If I found a couple former Muslims who had converted to Hinduism and claimed that Islam was baseless, would you believe them? (That's a rhetorical question. Don't come back to this thread.)

And in the future, would you please just mutter it to yourself whenever you feel like saying, "Peace be upon him," rather than typing it out? It's really annoying.

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