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The Case for Agnosticism
II Br@ss II
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  #31 (permalink) Default 03-19-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
Carbon dating is calibrated using objects of which we KNOW the age.

That is all.
Hey maybe if you actually researched Carbon Dating you would realize how inaccurate it really is. Even if they say it uses comparisons they aren't taking in the effect of different variables on it.
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The Case for Agnosticism
MLG Shinobi
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  #32 (permalink) Default 03-19-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I think your point is pretty f-in' weak too. The guy who came up with all of those arguments really wanted to vindicate his faith, so much so that he jumped to incorrect conclusions. He was seeing what he wanted to see. I'm having an exceptionally difficult time understanding how you could consider it scientific to characterize mountains as "pegs" and unborn babies as "chewed substances." I severely doubt that you'd ever hear those words uttered by a scientist.
Scientists have never uttered these words because they have never thought of concise accurate descriptions. What incorrect conclusions are you referring to? There are no incorrect conclusions.
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Cursed Lemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Br@ss II
Hey maybe if you actually researched Carbon Dating you would realize how inaccurate it really is. Even if they say it uses comparisons they aren't taking in the effect of different variables on it.
Did you also know that scientists can, you know, take those variables into consideration? A scientist is not going to use the same estimate for a rock that came out of a volcano as a rock that was formed in a riverbed, when he uses carbon dating.

Either way, carbon dating isn't SUPPOSED to be "perfectly accurate" when going back billions of years. However, it's good for much longer than the Bible says the Earth has been around.
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The Colostomizer
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  #34 (permalink) Default 03-19-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat O 101
Scientists have never uttered these words because they have never thought of concise accurate descriptions.
That is an awful statement. Look at Figure 5 in The Quran on Human Embryonic Development. Are you really going to tell me that describing the fetus at that stage as a "chewed substance" resembling "a piece of gum" is accurate and scientific? If so, don't bother replying because I will ignore you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat O 101
What incorrect conclusions are you referring to? There are no incorrect conclusions.
The conclusions that Muhammad correctly predicted things like human embryonic development and the geology of mountains are incorrect and, frankly, ridiculous.
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Un3Ek
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  #35 (permalink) Default 03-19-2006
 
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Just wanted to say that this is probably the most nonbiased and intelligent thread in the debate forum. Thanks Colostomizer, this is a great source of information supporting Agnosticism.

My two cents: All religions aside, if there is a God, all I can hope is that he judges you based on your character, and how you lived your life, not what you were led to believe.
 
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The Colostomizer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Un3Ek
Just wanted to say that this is probably the most nonbiased and intelligent thread in the debate forum. Thanks Colostomizer, this is a great source of information supporting Agnosticism.
Thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Un3Ek
My two cents: All religions aside, if there is a God, all I can hope is that he judges you based on your character, and how you lived your life, not what you were led to believe.
It seems to me that if there is a God, and if he makes it his business to judge people, he would judge you based on your character. If God were to judge people based on their faith in him (faith meaning belief without evidence), he would be completely irrational in my opinion, and I severely doubt that such an irrational God would rule the universe.

This discussion has become really off-topic, though. This is what I want people thinking about-
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
Since all religions possess an equally perfect lack of evidence supporting their metaphysical claims, belief in any one of them can only be justified through faith. I contend that faith is not enough to justify one religion over the others. Here's where we start the discussion. For anyone who disagrees, why is your faith better than that of someone who subscribes to a different belief system than you?
I am still waiting for a response to this.
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JayMs
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  #37 (permalink) Default 03-20-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
This discussion has become really off-topic, though. This is what I want people thinking about-I am still waiting for a response to this.
You know, I was thinking this a while back. What makes me believe that the Christian God is God, and what makes me think that the Muslim God, is not God? I think, that they are the same God, along with the Jewish God. I think now, that these three religions honor the same God, just in different ways. There is no doubt in my mind that there is not a God, and I know for a fact in my heart, that when I was walking the walk, that he is out there.
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MarkedAchilles
  #38 (permalink) Default 03-20-2006
 
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Show where you are getting your information on carbon dating. I Guaruntee it is from a religious site.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
For anyone who disagrees, why is your faith better than that of someone who subscribes to a different belief system than you?
Faith cannot be measured in absolutes, nor is it better or worse. It is considered to be different however.
For example: When you get into a car for the first time, you put your faith into the fact that the airbag wont randomly disperse, and with the way some people drive, they have a lot of faith!!

All I'm saying is that no faith is better than someone else's. I've chosen to put my faith in Jesus Christ because of the immense suffering he went through, for me.

Perhaps you meant the following, "Why is your religion better than that of someone else of a different religion?"

I do have an answer for that as well. Some people around the world try living as though tolerant toward other religions, that we should all just try to get along. The fact of the matter is that there are many religions in the world that have exceptionally radical beliefs, including Christianity. Putting your faith in a God who became incarnate and rose from the dead seems rather radical, wouldn't you think?

Now you are probably wondering why I didn't answer the question I myself posed above. If you read that paragraph above on more time, you will see why I believe Christianity is better than any other.

By no means am I arrogant about my faith in anyway. I don't personally go out of my way to throw something back into someones face regarding the differences in religion.
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ekattan
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  #40 (permalink) Default 03-20-2006
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
The purpose of this thread is to prove that agnosticism is the best way to go. To do that, I will present my best argument against all religious faiths (atheism included), because if those belief systems are called into question, agnosticism will be the only choice left.

Built into my argument is the assumption that there is no evidence to suggest that any one religion is more valid than any other. This assumption is based on the fact that I've never encountered such evidence. I'll concede that there is a large body of evidence suggesting the existence of a creator, but the incredible aspects of our reality don't support Christianity any more than they support Islam. If you think that I've missed something that proves one religion over all the others, present it in this thread and I'll consider it.

Since all religions possess an equally perfect lack of evidence supporting their metaphysical claims, belief in any one of them can only be justified through faith. I contend that faith is not enough to justify one religion over the others. Here's where we start the discussion. For anyone who disagrees, why is your faith better than that of someone who subscribes to a different belief system than you?
Well you practically are saying that all religions are the same and they are not. Why because of the Bible. I know some passages are hard to believe but you gotta understand that it has it flaws. Religion has been corrupted by the greed of man and has been distorted in such a way to benefit those in power. But nevertheless the Bible is one of the most accurate history tools mankind has and I do believe all the passages about Jesus Christ are true.

Why should I believe in the Bible? Well why should you believe in evolution or thermodynamics? Because you read it in a book? Because it it's a fact? Well what is a fact? All those theorems and thoeries were proven out of assumptions and constants that can't be explained or proven, we just know they exist.

We all have become cynics in this world, we truly think we have it all figured out, but the more you learn (yeah thats right) the more you learn that you don't know sh.t. Only ignorant people think they have this world and life figured out.

For me Jesus Christ was real because he made sense. All that he spoke of I know is true cause it's what feels right. All this concern about wealth and material possesions don't make sense to me. It doesn't feel right that people stuff their faces with food day in and day out when there is people starving all around the world. Our society and way of life doesn't make sense and we have become assimilated to it and accepted it and we have become cynics.

You will become wiser with age Colostomizer and I know for a fact your views will change. I'm not saying that you will become catholic or jewish, just that many beliefs you have today will eventually change because of things you learn and experience, so be open to ideas.
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Last edited by ekattan; 03-20-2006 at 10:47 AM.
 
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