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The Case for Agnosticism
XixHeAvYxMETALxiX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I don't half-heartedly believe in any religion and expect to reap the rewards. I think it's possible that any religion is right, but I find it very unlikely. I expect to be sent straight to Hell if any religion I've ever heard of is right (at least the ones that believe in some form of Hell). However, I can deal with that, because the possibility of me languishing in Hell for all eternity is a very small chance in my mind. Religion is certainly comforting, but that's just another way of saying it's the easy way out. When presented with a choice between what is right and what is easy, I hope that I will always choose what's right, and that's what I think I'm doing with agnosticism.

I have heard that there is a general concensus among historians that Jesus did walk the Earth, so I think it's reasonable to conclude that he probably was a real guy. But that doesn't mean that he was the Jesus of the Bible. I very much doubt that.

If he wasn't the Jesus of the Bible, than who would it be? A 9 year old kid in Mexico? Jesus was a man, and did walk the Earth. If they can find evidence of this, then they could find evidence of some records telling of miracles that occured around Jesus, or by him.
 
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The Case for Agnosticism
Cursed Lemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XixHeAvYxMETALxiX
If he wasn't the Jesus of the Bible, than who would it be? A 9 year old kid in Mexico? Jesus was a man, and did walk the Earth. If they can find evidence of this, then they could find evidence of some records telling of miracles that occured around Jesus, or by him.
The "records of miracles" that he performed is the Bible.

Historically, Jesus existed. But there is absolutely no way to prove to me that he performed these miracles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
The point is that it would be wrong to choose any one belief system over the others because none of them have proof, or even evidence. If you're saying agnosticism is wrong, which is simply rejecting all the belief systems and saying, "I don't know," then you must think that one of the religions is right (that or atheism). But that would mean I'd have to pick one and say, "I do know." So, which should I choose and how do I know that I'd be right?
You have not searched hard enough for your answers. Islam DOES provide man with scientific evidence. This scientific evidence is in the Quran. Alot of this evidence is posted in my thread. Heres a link to my thread, http://www.halo2forum.com/showthread.php?t=46951Please do not respond by saying that Muhammad made a "lucky prediction" when he made accurate references to science. Look through the information. Any intelligent person can recognize that the Quran is God's words after looking through the information thoroughly.
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The Colostomizer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat O 101
You have not searched hard enough for your answers. Islam DOES provide man with scientific evidence. This scientific evidence is in the Quran. Alot of this evidence is posted in my thread. Heres a link to my thread, http://www.halo2forum.com/showthread.php?t=46951Please do not respond by saying that Muhammad made a "lucky prediction" when he made accurate references to science. Look through the information. Any intelligent person can recognize that the Quran is God's words after looking through the information thoroughly.
I actually did look through the information you presented, and I decided initially that there was nothing worth replying to. I did reply to a later comment you made, but you didn't respond. Here's the post:

http://www.halo2forum.com/showthread...483#post703483

You did not present any facts in your original post, there were simply a lot of opinions borne out of ignorance. All of the critiques of scientific theories that you linked to were products of a severe lack of understanding of the concepts.

The supposed predictions by Muhammad were nothing of the sort. The point about the geology of mountains was crap. "Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground." The only reason you don't see anything wrong with this argument is because you're a Muslim and you don't know much about science. Since I'm not a Muslim and I know a little bit about science, I can see how ridiculous that conclusion is.

Characterizing mountains as pegs and fetuses as chewed substances is not even close to scientific.

All of the points are basically the same. The guy picked out ambiguous verses from the Quran and jumped to farfetched, unsupported conclusions. His arguments are way too much of a stretch to be taken seriously.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
I actually did look through the information you presented, and I decided that there was nothing worth replying to. I did reply to a later comment you made, but you didn't respond. Here's the post:

http://www.halo2forum.com/showthread...483#post703483

You did not present any facts in your original post, there were simply a lot of opinions borne out of ignorance. All of the critiques of scientific theories that you linked to were products of a severe lack of understanding of the concepts.

The supposed predictions by Muhammad were nothing of the sort. The point about the geology of mountains was crap. "Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground. So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground." The only reason you don't see anything wrong with this argument is because you're a Muslim and you don't know much about science. Since I'm not a Muslim and I know a little bit about science, I can see how ridiculous that conclusion is.

Characterizing mountains as pegs and fetuses as chewed substances is not even close to scientific.

All of the points are basically the same. The guy picked out ambiguous verses from the Quran and jumped to farfetched, unsupported conclusions. His arguments are way too much of a stretch to be taken seriously.
lol...I already stated please do not respond by trying to convince me that an illiterate man(prophet Muhammad) could make a "lucky prediction". You did exactly what I asked you not to do...lol. Yup, Muhammad made accurate references to human embryonic development(even though you would need a microscope to view these things)[sarcasm]. Are you saying that saying the words "pegs" and "chewed substances" are NOT accurate descriptions of mountains and fetuses? Your argument is weak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat O 101
lol...I already stated please do not respond by trying to convince me that an illiterate man(prophet Muhammad) could make a "lucky prediction". You did exactly what I asked you not to do...lol. Yup, Muhammad made accurate references to human embryonic development(even though you would need a microscope to view these things)[sarcasm]. Are you saying that saying the words "pegs" and "chewed substances" are NOT accurate descriptions of mountains and fetuses? Your argument is weak.
Did you read my entire post? Where did I do exactly what you asked me not to do? Please quote it for me, because I'm pretty sure I did not try to convince you that Muhammad made a "lucky prediction." And yes, I am saying that describing mountains and fetuses as pegs and chewed substances is not accurate. It certainly isn't scientific like you claimed.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon
The Bible also says that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old. And that is dead wrong.
How do you know that is dead wrong though? I know it is unlikely but do scientists have any proof of any living things older than that. By the way the Bible says earth is about 10,000 years old not 6,000 (for future reference). Carbon dating is not completely accurate and was created by comparing it to other ages of items tested. I'm not saying I completely believe the earth being 6,000 years old but it is more possible than you would think.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by II Br@ss II
How do you know that is dead wrong though? I know it is unlikely but do scientists have any proof of any living things older than that. By the way the Bible says earth is about 10,000 years old not 6,000 (for future reference). Carbon dating is not completely accurate and was created by comparing it to other ages of items tested. I'm not saying I completely believe the earth being 6,000 years old but it is more possible than you would think.
Carbon dating is calibrated using objects of which we KNOW the age.

That is all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Colostomizer
Did you read my entire post? Where did I do exactly what you asked me not to do? Please quote it for me, because I'm pretty sure I did not try to convince you that Muhammad made a "lucky prediction." And yes, I am saying that describing mountains and fetuses as pegs and chewed substances is not accurate. It certainly isn't scientific like you claimed.
Ok sorry about falsely accusing you. I felt it was implied. Anyway, your point is still weak. How is it anything but scientific evidence? Are you saying that any normal person could have thought this up?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phat O 101
Ok sorry about falsely accusing you. I felt it was implied. Anyway, your point is still weak. How is it anything but scientific evidence? Are you saying that any normal person could have thought this up?
I think your point is pretty f-in' weak too. The guy who came up with all of those arguments really wanted to vindicate his faith, so much so that he jumped to incorrect conclusions. He was seeing what he wanted to see. I'm having an exceptionally difficult time understanding how you could consider it scientific to characterize mountains as "pegs" and unborn babies as "chewed substances." I severely doubt that you'd ever hear those words uttered by a scientist.
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