Originally Posted by Rebal771

I think that there's a major conflict in the perspectives of each side.

Bishop, Cheese, and I are all used to Christianity...which is self-reflective. You basically do things yourself, change things yourself...learn things yourself...everything (with God's help...of course...but the rest of the humans don't see this).

But...Agnosticism doesn't really seem to reflect anything...as it puts a mirror up to the rest of the world. They don't claim agnosticism...they simply do it. Agnosticism simply points a finger at the rest of the world saying "Hey...you all are equal...because no one has proved anything."

The problem here, that Bishop, Cheese, and I are all trying to get through is that eventhough you don't see an answer, or 'Proof'.......you will be judged. Because you have not ventured out to make a step in ANY direction...you get placed amongst the Non-believers...which ends up being a melting pot of athiests, agnostics, wickens, etc.

Forgive me for sounding like a street preacher...but everyone will die one day...and your judgement day will come. We know this to be true...and you could too, if you ventured out to seek God.

Anyway...back to agnosticism. The reality of earth...is that everything is not equal. Decisions have to be made...no matter how much information is provided or not. The stance of Agnosticism simply stands with fingers pointed everywhere else but themselves. It DOES NOT say "I'm right." It says..."You all have proved nothing...and I will remain here on hold until something is proven."

Your life lasts a limited amount of time, and we're trying to get you out of that position. It's equally as bad for you as this:

Put a hamburger patty on one plate. Put 5 slices of bacon on another plate. Put an apple on another plate. Put a piece of cake on another plate.

NOW...the purpose here...is to pick the one that is the best for you.

A Christian would pray...and ask God which one to eat...and eat it in faith.

A Jew would eat any of them but the pork. (Sorry...Jew joke...don't take this sentence seriously.)

An athiest would choose to starve...saying that none of them are good for you.

An agnostic would wait until one of them proved that they were better for you.

The thing is...you have to LOOK INTO each one...and see which one is the best for you. YOU HAVE TO DO IT YOURSELF...BECAUSE IT'S YOUR LIFE! FIND YOUR OWN EVIDENCE!!!

Lemon...you are correct. Agnostics make no claims...because there is no claim to make. No claim = no purpose = wasting time...because life keeps moving, whether or not you make that decision...until you starve. (Agnosticism eventually turns you into an athiest...whether you want to be or not, because you placed your faith in NOTHING.) REMEMBER...time is limited.

Ultimately...no matter what Agnosticism claims or doesn't claim...we're all going to die. Since they can not prove anything that happens after death...but are waiting for someone to prove it...I find it rather foolish to want to stand in that position.

I like to keep an open mind about just about everything. That's something that I respect about Agnostics, but at the sametime...you can't play the "I don't know" game forever. Some situations call for a decision...including Life after death, courtrooms, and 4 food on 4 different plates. You eventually either have to pick one...or die in confusion...and get PLACED somewhere that you never believed in anyway.

Try being more self-reflective...and you might start understanding where Christians come from. We already understand that you guys make no claim. BUT WE UNDERSTAND FURTHER...that by making no claim...you inherantly deny ours, because ours calls for ACTION. You have to DO SOMETHING.

Remember...time is limited.

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

Agnostics may be "wasting time", but that still doesn't take away from the logical value of our position. You say that I should pick a side, but there is a number of problems with that. The first and foremost being, which do I choose? Why shouldn't I convert to Islam, instead of Christianity?

Secondly, I would think that just "choosing a religion" is not putting proper faith in that religion. I can say "I accept Jesus as my savior", but I absolutely wouldn't agree with that inside. And I refuse to cheaply step over one line without wholeheartedly believing in the side I'm taking.

As for your food analogy, the example of a Christian (or any religion at all) isn't correct in my opinion. Any religion that makes a claim automatically has a "food" to side with. To make a claim is to "cook something". To an agnostic, it would be like every religion presenting an equal amount of tofu on a plate; to an agnostic, it's still all tofu, just presented in a different shape each time.

Originally Posted by davobrosia

That's not something you should joke about.

Originally Posted by Rebal771

First...I'm not telling you which to choose. I'm telling you to go find it yourself. S'what I did. You don't just "choose"...you FIND it. FIND SOMETHING!

Second...I agree with that. Even if you "said" it...and you didn't mean it...God would know as well. So no...don't be a cheap bastard.

Third...this is the perspective problem I'm talking about. You think of all the foods as the religion. Well...in a sense...that is correct...but God doesn't "Assign" every Christian the same food/habit/choice. He gives a general outlook in the Bible...but becomes more specific the more you get to know him...hence the prayer. It's not just a set of rules...my friend. I didn't include Muslims because I don't know much about them. The point is this...tofu or other food...you're still not making a choice. You'll still go hungry...just like an Athiest. But at least they denied the food. You just couldn't decide.

Originally Posted by Cursed Lemon

But you, as a Christian, would say that I found the wrong path if I chose Islam, yes? (And I obviously can't just make up my own religion on the spot) So if I eat the wrong food, I get the boot from God (or Allah, or Yahweh, or Zeus or whatever)?

Originally Posted by davobrosia

That's not something you should joke about.

Originally Posted by Rebal771

I can't honestly answer that question.

These 3 religions are VERY CLOSE in relation...but I can tell you that if you chose something other than these three...you'd be a moron...lol. Kidding.

Judaism
Islam
Christianity

The Bible addresses each of these in different ways...and I know that the Torah and the Quran also have some of the same books. The thing that separates Christianity is it calls you to follow Christ.......who sacrificed himself so that we could gain grace.

Judaism = Christianity - (Jesus x Grace)

I'm pretty sure that Islam was Judaism until Cain and Able separated the two (by decsendants or something...not fully sure).....but again...I could be wrong.

If Islam says to follow Christ...then I would so go ahead. But the Bible pretty much talks about Jews and Christians, and how they will end up...so I would bet either one of those before the other.

I follow Christ, though...not necessarily "Christian Doctrine"...or at least what the rest of the world calls doctrine.

So...the answer is.........uhhhhh????

Originally Posted by davobrosia

That's not something you should joke about.

Originally Posted by Rebal771

Well don't let your plight carry you to the end.
Don't blindly rush to one side...but don't sit idle.

Other than that...I wish you luck. (Lol...and I'll pray for ya.)

Originally Posted by Rebal771

Well don't let your plight carry you to the end.
Don't blindly rush to one side...but don't sit idle.

Other than that...I wish you luck. (Lol...and I'll pray for ya.)

Originally Posted by Bishop

Especially if you have the sickest car too, like a 69' GT500. IT sounds soo cool when you idle it.

Imagine how much cooler it would sound if you put your foot to the gas though. What I'm trying to say is that you need to make the decision as to whether you shut the car off and get out, or you go nuts and burn a lot of gas. Who seriously wants to burn moderate amounts of gas where you go nowhere. Thats whats called a waste of gas money.