You really, really don't get it, do you?


Let me get this straight...you just said we are not telling you what we know...and then in the exact same sentence you tell me: "we know that you don't know."

brilliant, just brilliant

I always love it when I encounter mature individuals who can express their opinions in a scholarly and professional manner.

What I'm saying is that a persons choice regarding religion (or lack thereof)has enourmous consequences in this life.

Of course it's a school of thought. It's a way of analyzing the large questions of life. It's a lense though which you view the world. There is a clearcut difference between the way that an agnostic and a christian or an agnostic and an aetheist view the world.

again, I always love it when people show such genuine respect for one another.

I'll try. However, in the spirit of fair play I'd like to ask you to do the same. Please undestand that Agnosticism is up for criticism just the same as everything else... how can one constantly criticize the beliefs of others, and then throw a fit when someone begins to criticize his own?

Seems a little odd to me.

I dont think colostomizer was putting forth the argument that the legal system should only rely upon scientific evidence from now on. He was instead stating that using these methods are not reasonable when trying to substantiate or prove religious claims.
The reason why you cant rely on testimonials, eye witness accounts and expert opinions is that these things can never be fully proven true. Thus the Bible, Quran, Holy book of Ronald cannot realistically claim to be the word of god (i.e. truth)
Agnosticism is just the idea that because no religion can be proven true (yet?) then why bother believing in one over the other, until concrete evidnece comes to light.

Agnosticism is not a religious movement. It is a belief in following a rational line of thinking when it comes to belieing the claims made by all religions. i.e. Until there is proof then why follow any religious thought.

It is not building a case around something that doesn't exist. It is building a case around the fact that no religion can be proven.

Agnosticism is more to do with "Everything else is unproven", and is not claiming that anything is right or wrong. Just unproven and thus a good enough reason to not ascribe to any religion.

Agnosticism is based on rational thought and does not make any claims about the origin of the universe, how we came to be, etc. It does not attempt to provide answers to things unknown.
It merely asks the individual to question whether or not religious claims can be substantiated. And the answer to that is a big NO.

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I'm back in Aus! (Miss Whistler though)

gt = The dumdum

Sorry, but don't you get tired of talking like that? "Built into my argument is the assumption that there is no evidence to suggest that any one religion is more valid than any other." I mean, your pretty cool and everything, but what the f..k..

We know (and you know) you have no proof. This is called blind faith on your part.

What consequences??

It doesn't provide false claims!

By all means criticise it, but try and provide some logical reasoning. Not everything can be along the lines of "because it is".

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I'm back in Aus! (Miss Whistler though)

gt = The dumdum

Sometimes when you are trying to get your point across three letter words just don't cut it anymore.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section

My Facebook thing. . .

Think You Watch Movies? http://www.halo3forum.com/movies/81621-movies-you-need-see-before-you-die-weekly-review.html

Oh. My. God.

I give up.

I f..king give up.

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Colostimizer, I personally apologize that this is off-topic, and I hate myself for this too because I haven't posted a post of off-topic post/spam/nonsense, in a long ass time, but,

Is this section, and sub-section, the only thing you post in?

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RON: Runnin ova noobs
Epil3ptic
F0gM4ch1n3
Corp Str1ker
Need a 4th.


CoD4
P1ckupyourfac3

No, I've got some pretty big threads going in Halo 3 General Discussion (Halo 3 for Xbox 360) and in Halo 2 Videos (Double Shot Combo), and I post every once in a while in other sections.

(Don't you worry about a thing, cheesegrady87. I've got a nice, lengthy response for you, saved along with the state of my computer in Standby mode. I'll post it as soon as I find my laptop.)

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I think that there's a major conflict in the perspectives of each side.

Bishop, Cheese, and I are all used to Christianity...which is self-reflective. You basically do things yourself, change things yourself...learn things yourself...everything (with God's help...of course...but the rest of the humans don't see this).

But...Agnosticism doesn't really seem to reflect anything...as it puts a mirror up to the rest of the world. They don't claim agnosticism...they simply do it. Agnosticism simply points a finger at the rest of the world saying "Hey...you all are equal...because no one has proved anything."

The problem here, that Bishop, Cheese, and I are all trying to get through is that eventhough you don't see an answer, or 'Proof'.......you will be judged. Because you have not ventured out to make a step in ANY direction...you get placed amongst the Non-believers...which ends up being a melting pot of athiests, agnostics, wickens, etc.

Forgive me for sounding like a street preacher...but everyone will die one day...and your judgement day will come. We know this to be true...and you could too, if you ventured out to seek God.

Anyway...back to agnosticism. The reality of earth...is that everything is not equal. Decisions have to be made...no matter how much information is provided or not. The stance of Agnosticism simply stands with fingers pointed everywhere else but themselves. It DOES NOT say "I'm right." It says..."You all have proved nothing...and I will remain here on hold until something is proven."

Your life lasts a limited amount of time, and we're trying to get you out of that position. It's equally as bad for you as this:

Put a hamburger patty on one plate. Put 5 slices of bacon on another plate. Put an apple on another plate. Put a piece of cake on another plate.

NOW...the purpose here...is to pick the one that is the best for you.

A Christian would pray...and ask God which one to eat...and eat it in faith.

A Jew would eat any of them but the pork. (Sorry...Jew joke...don't take this sentence seriously.)

An athiest would choose to starve...saying that none of them are good for you.

An agnostic would wait until one of them proved that they were better for you.

The thing is...you have to LOOK INTO each one...and see which one is the best for you. YOU HAVE TO DO IT YOURSELF...BECAUSE IT'S YOUR LIFE! FIND YOUR OWN EVIDENCE!!!

Lemon...you are correct. Agnostics make no claims...because there is no claim to make. No claim = no purpose = wasting time...because life keeps moving, whether or not you make that decision...until you starve. (Agnosticism eventually turns you into an athiest...whether you want to be or not, because you placed your faith in NOTHING.) REMEMBER...time is limited.

Ultimately...no matter what Agnosticism claims or doesn't claim...we're all going to die. Since they can not prove anything that happens after death...but are waiting for someone to prove it...I find it rather foolish to want to stand in that position.

I like to keep an open mind about just about everything. That's something that I respect about Agnostics, but at the sametime...you can't play the "I don't know" game forever. Some situations call for a decision...including Life after death, courtrooms, and 4 food on 4 different plates. You eventually either have to pick one...or die in confusion...and get PLACED somewhere that you never believed in anyway.

Try being more self-reflective...and you might start understanding where Christians come from. We already understand that you guys make no claim. BUT WE UNDERSTAND FURTHER...that by making no claim...you inherantly deny ours, because ours calls for ACTION. You have to DO SOMETHING.

Remember...time is limited.

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Davo is my favorite this week.


THANKS SOLID................................& STORMS!!!

Not mentioned in sig: <3 Lammie

I am not willing to make a decision if I can't be sure that I'll make the right one. And I'm only going to be judged by your God if Christianity is right. I highly doubt that. There are so many problems with Christianity that you are incapable of considering because you're already a believer. You made that decision before you should have, before you fully examined the implications. Did you read the Quran before becoming a Christian? Did you look into Hinduism? Did you even read the entire Bible before you converted? You made a choice based on one piece of the puzzle, before you saw the other options. That's how religion survives. Why do you think there are people of different religious beliefs? They did the same thing as you; they made a choice based on one piece of the puzzle, albeit a different one, before they saw the other options. Had you been raised in a Muslim household, you would probably being facing Mecca to pray. Pick a Muslim, any Muslim, and chances are the reverse would apply to him. Raise him in a Christian household, and he'd place his faith in Jesus. Pick anyone, absolutely anyone, and have that person fully examine every religion, including atheism, before making a choice, and what do you think would happen? No choice would be made (better known as agnosticism).

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