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Originally Posted by ROG chuhkee  Ummm...
Proving the historic Jesus
By Harry V. Martin
Copyright FreeAmerica and Harry V. Martin, 1995
<H5>EDITOR'S NOTE: This article does not debate the divinity nor the spiritual aspects of Christianity, but only the historical evidence that Jesus Christ did, in fact, exist. The recent finding of the burial cave of Caiaphas, the high priest, adds even more evidence to the general historical truth of the New Testament.</H5>
Most Biblical scholars, historians, archeologist and even the clergy are knowledgeable about one fact of Christianity that the Christian worshipper is not, there is limited historical facts to establish finite historical evidence that Jesus Christ existed. The vast majority of what Christians believe today is based purely on the New Testament , a collection of writings and testimony of those who knew Jesus and from those who never saw him. The origin of the New Testament was not the "bible" of the Christians until after 150 A.D. The actual "bible" of the early Christians was the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament. For more than a century after the death of Christ, the early Christians relied on the Old Testament.
The writings in the New Testament were mostly from men of little literary learning, they were from long-time memories, and some were from hearsay. Biblical scholars have often pointed to glaring errors in the New Testament, conflicts in the testimonies between those who knew Jesus. Many "books" or testimonies were omitted from the New Testament. The writers of these Testaments were less concerned with the historical accuracies of their words and more concerned with the spiritual meanings of Christ's teachings.
The most fascinating time in Christianity began after the death of Christ through to the conclusion of Emperor Constantine's Christian conclave, the true shaping of Christianity as we know it today, this epic period merged the diverse views of the Apologists to the Gnostics. Jesus Christ and his Disciples were not part of the long series of debates that established Christian dogma. The Early Christian Fathers, published by The Westminster Press, states, "The most striking facts about early Christian literature are its rich variety and its almost exclusively Gentile authorship. Outside the New Testament writings, little belongs to the first century, the only considerable document being Clement's Letter to the Church of Corinth." No Jewish Christian literature appears to have survived the ages. Few Jewish Christians from the Palestinian Church survived after the fifth century, though their teachings and work can be found in the religion of Islam. The Gentiles, and not the Jewish Christians who lived and worshipped in the land of Jesus, dominated the Christian religion, and changed much of its original concepts.
EARLY CHRISTIAN SCHISM
The main battlelines in the second century focused around the "Orthodox" Christians and the Gnostics. After Constintine's conclave, the Gnostics vanished into history, some of their work survived and was unearthed in 1945 near Nag Hammadi in Upper Egypt. The discovered writings are known as the Nag Hammadi library, the Gnostic manuscripts virtually begin where the Dead Sea Scrolls end. These writings provide insights into early Judaism and the roots of Christianity. The Gnostics challenged the New Testament and rejected the Old Testament. They viewed the Jewish and Christian revelations as antithetical, noting the contrast of the good God revealed by Jesus Christ with the Old Testament God of retaliation and vengeance. The Gnostics, in essence, were responsible for doing away with the Old Testament as the sacred book of Christians, and in its place supplied a cannon called The Gospel and the Apostile. There was no unity in determining which books should be contained in the New Testament until the fourth century.
The Early Christian Fathers states, that Christian doctrine was established to embrace the Gentile concepts. "To interpret it to the Gentile mind, its affinities were the best in pagan religious thought were utilized. To maintain it against persecution, the martyr was willing to suffer. Finally, to ensure the perpetuity of the faith, the Church built up a close knit organization that was as uncompromising toward heresy and schism as it was toward the demands of the State." In The Verdict of History by Gary R. Habermas, this concept is carried further. "The charge is often made that Jesus' message was actually quite different from the one which Christians have traditionally taught concerning him. This sometimes is said to be the case, for instance, because the Gospels represent the teachings of the early church and not those of Jesus himself." Hugh Schonfield, a noted religious scholar, explains why the changes may have taken place. He states that Jesus was a teacher who was true to Judaism and who had no desire to start any new religion. "That is why, for instance, he never proclaimed his own deity," Schonfield wrote. Schonfield even challenges the early Church by claiming they may have written some of the New Testament books and influenced others to rewrite the story of Jesus. "The result is that Christian theology as it is taught today is not the teachings of Jesus and the apostles."
Paul's writings reveal little of the historical Jesus. A few historians have stated that Paul knew little of Jesus' historical life, the time of his birth, or death, for instance. G.A. Wells indicates that Paul may have conceived of Jesus as a supernatural being who led a very obscure life that was ended by crucifixion, perhaps even centuries before Paul's own time. But Paul was not interested in historical details, nor were the other writers of the New Testament, spiritual considerations dominated their thoughts. Habermas states that the "Gospels do not purport to record actual historical events, but that they simply report the faith of early Christians. We know much less about the historical Jesus than the Gospels actually recorded, for these writers were just not too concerned with history."
HISTORICAL RECORDS | Consolidate this next time, please. Quote: Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
[b]It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate.
| Christus/Christos means, literally, anointed/elected one. Real f..king historians know that. Tacitus was talking about an elected leader, or a leader anointed by the higher-ups of the Roman Empire. Quote: |
There is plenty of evidence that the Jesus that the Bible teaches lived, k? However, I'm not saying this evidence proves any of the miracles he did on Earth or that he is the Son of God, that comes with faith. Curiously, though, it does state that Jesus's body went missing after three days.
| What's really interesting is that in another thread, I USED THE BIBLE to disprove the existence of Jesus. Care to refute that? It might even have been in this thread, I do not remember. However, it was only a few days ago. |
07-03-2008
. Just wanted to point that out.
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