You dont know what youre talking about.
And what do you mean "we". Its not like throwing dogs and burning cats is a Great American Past time and everyone does it all the time. If you mean, the select few who do that kind of sh.t, then yes, we ALL burn cats and throw dogs off cliffs.

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Well gee thanks for explaining that in detail ...wait

We as in the human race.

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In this section, you cite sources.

Until then, I have no clue what you're talking about.

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All lies. Legal abortions performed in every industrialized country are done as humanely as possible. 3rd world countries don't have abortions because they're often too stuck in religious dogma to even know it exists.

I fully support a woman's right to chose. First trimester abortions are perfectly fine - the embryo is less developed than a tadpole. It's incapable of feeling pain due to the lack of a brain, and lack of a Peripheral Nervous System.

However, I'm totally against partial-birth abortions - In those, the doctor waits until the baby's head comes out, and then hits the back with a hammer, spilling out the baby's brain, and killing it. Fortunately, they're illegal (even though abortion opponents claim they're legal 100% of the time).

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The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion.
-Thomas Paine

He also showed a completely selective situation. That's your sister, that's too bad for her, but there are way other outcomes.

I also would like to know how you figure there is a 100% prevention rate for pregnancy? I know a share of those people are simply dodging the unforeseen outcome. They all didn't make a bad choice.

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All lies. Legal abortions performed in every industrialized country are done as humanely as possible. 3rd world countries don't have abortions because they're often too stuck in religious dogma to even know it exists.

Sorry, but what you replied isn't true at all, here are the list of methods used in teh majority of countries that have legalized abortion.

***Maybe religious countries are against abortion for obvious reasons.
Fetus are commonly known to feel distress at 13 weeks, and can cry in pain by the 17th week.
Suction Aspiration
This is the most common method of abortion during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. General or local anaesthesia is given to the mother and her cervix is quickly dilated. A suction curette (hollow tube with a knife-edged tip) is inserted into the womb. This instrument is then connected to a vacuum machine by a transparent tube. The vacuum suction, 29 times more powerful than a household vacuum cleaner, tears the fetus and placenta into small pieces which are sucked through the tube into a bottle and discarded.
Dilation and Curettage (D&C)
This method is similar to the suction method with the added insertion of a hook shaped knife (curette) which cuts the baby into pieces. The pieces are scraped out through the cervix and discarded [Note: This abortion method should not be confused with a therapeutic D&C done for reasons other than pregancy.]

Twelve-week pre-born baby
By the end of the third month all arteries are present, including the coronary vessels of the heart. Blood is circulating through these vessels to all body parts.
The heart beat ranges during this fetal period from 110 to 160 beats per minute. All blood cells are produced by the liver and spleen, a job soon taken over by the bone marrow. White blood cells, important for immunity, are formed in the lymph nodes and thymus.

Vocal chords are complete, and the child can and does sometimes cry (silently). The brain is fully formed, and the child can feel pain. The fetus may even suck his thumb. The eyelids now cover the eyes, and will remain shut until the seventh month to protect the delicate optical nerve fibers.


14 weeks - Muscles lenghten and become organized. The mother will soon start feeling the first flutters of the baby kicking and moving inside.

15 weeks - The fetus has an adult's taste buds and may be able to savor the mother's meals.
16 weeks - Five and a half inches tall and only six ounces in weight, eyebrows, eyelashes and fine hair appear. The child can grasp with his hands, kick, or even somersault.

Eighteen week pre-born baby

The fetus is now about 5 inches long. The child blinks, grasps, and moves her mouth. Hair grows on the head and body.
20 weeks - The child can hear and recognize mother's voice. Though still small and fragile, the baby is growing rapidly and could possibly survive if born at this stage. Fingernails and fingerprints appear. Sex organs are visible. Using an ultrasound device, the doctor can tell if the child is a girl or a boy. The one on the left is a baby girl.

Dilation and Evacuation (D&E)
This method is used up to 18 weeks' gestation. Instead of the loop-shaped knife used in D&C abortions, a pair of forceps is inserted into the womb to grasp part of the fetus. The teeth of the forceps twist and tear the bones of the unborn child. This process is repeated until the fetus is totally dismembered and removed. Usually the spine must be snapped and the skull crushed in order to remove them.
Salt Poisoning (Saline Injection):
Used after 16 weeks (four months) when enough fluid has accumulated. A long needle injects a strong salt solution through the mother's abdomen into the baby's sac. The baby swallows this fluid and is poisoned by it. It also acts as a corrosive, burning off the outer layer of skin. It normally takes somewhat over an hour for the baby to die from this. Within 24 hours, labor will usually set in and the mother will give birth to a dead or dying baby. (There have been many cases of these babies being born alive. They are usually left unattended to die. However, a few have survived and later been adopted.)


Six month pre-born baby
Seen here at six months, the unborn child is covered with a fine, downy hair called lanugo. Its tender skin is protected by a waxy substance called vernix. Some of this substance may still be on the child's skin at birth at which time it will be quickly absorbed. The child practices breathing by inhaling amnionic fluid into developing lungs.


Prostaglandin Chemical Abortion:
This form of abortion uses chemicals developed by the Upjohn Pharmaceutical Co. which cause the uterus to contract intensely, pushing out the developing baby. The contractions are more violent than normal, natural contractions, so the unborn baby is frequently killed by them -- some have even been decapitated. Many, however, have also been born alive.

Hysterotomy or Caesarean Section:
Used mainly in the last three months of pregnancy, the womb is entered by surgery through the wall of the abdomen. The technique is similar to a Caesarean delivery, except that the umbilical cord is usually cut while the baby is still in the womb, thus cutting off his oxygen supply and causing him to suffocate. Sometimes the baby is removed alive and simply left in a corner to die of neglect or exposure.


30 weeks - For several months, the umbilical cord has been the baby's lifeline to the mother. Nourishment is transferred from the mother's blood, through the placenta, and into the umbilical cord to the fetus. If the mother ingests any toxic substances, such as drugs or alcohol, the baby receives these as well.

32 weeks - The fetus sleeps 90-95% of the day, and sometimes experiences REM sleep, an indication of dreaming.
Five steps to a partial birth abortion:
1) Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's legs with forceps.



40 weeks - The baby, now approximately seven and a half pounds, is ready for life outside its mother's womb. At birth the placenta will detach from the side of the uterus and the umbilical cord will cease working as the child takes his first breaths of air. The child's breathing will trigger changes in the structure of the heart and bypass arteries which will force all blood to now travel through the lungs.

Many of the amazing pictures shown here were taken from the very excellent Nine Month Miracle CD ROM, by A.D.A.M. Software, Inc., the book A Child Is Born by the famous Swedish photographer Lennart Nilsson, and the handbook When You were Formed in Secret, by Gary Bergel. Photos appearing on this web site are reproduced under "fair use" terms for the purpose of public education. For permission to use these photos for commercial purposes, please contact the original sources indicated above. Source for much of the above text includes copyrighted material by Terwilliger Web Development Services and is used with permission.




These methods are a REALITY in most countries which support abortion.
Some have laws that ban some of these methods, most do not.

I fully support a woman's right to chose. First trimester abortions are perfectly fine - the embryo is less developed than a tadpole. It's incapable of feeling pain due to the lack of a brain, and lack of a Peripheral Nervous System.

We aren't justified in ending a human life for our own selfish reasons, even if its in the early stages of development.

However, I'm totally against partial-birth abortions - In those, the doctor waits until the baby's head comes out, and then hits the back with a hammer, spilling out the baby's brain, and killing it. Fortunately, they're illegal (even though abortion opponents claim they're legal 100% of the time).

These abortions are legal in some countries outside the U.S which legalized abortion.
It's ironic that people who support abortion in the later stages of pregnancies support animal rights as well.
Trust me, the expereince of an abortion can leave a family (such as mine) decimated by grief and regret.
Our family currently meets up with othe rfamilies that are in similar circumstances, and we participate in a support group for women (and families) who regret abortion. Though we aren't practicing Christians at all, we are completely against abortion laws due to the MANY people that we know through this group that have been left in ruins due to a simple abortion in the later stages of the pregnancy.

I dunno, the ethical treatment of animals is a weird topic. Some people say i'm a terrible person for dove hunting or deer hunting... the way i see it, as long as i don't "sport" the deer or anything and gloat it around my house as many do on their walls, but simply use it for food... i guess i kinda see that as my "justification" for killing an "innocent" animal. I don't know, it's weird.

I have nothing against the fair treatment of animals. Maybe not to the extent of PETA per say, but it's still life and i think should be treated respectfully.


ForTheLastTime summarized what I would have said quite nicely.

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"We laugh at honor and are shocked when we find knives in our backs, we follow those who cheat and steal. Look in my eyes, you won't find your way back. Our only compass smashed under our own heels, under our iron will. The abolition of man is within the reach of science. But are we so far gone that we'll try it?" - Dustin Kensrue

That was his opinion, not a legitimate definition. You aren't allowed to just make things up. But, you ARE one of only about a half-dozen kingdoms of eukaryotic life forms. Unlike those of most other biological kingdoms, you are incapable of manufacturing your own food and must compensate for that by ingesting other organisms. In other words, your most basic structure requires that you cause death to other living things. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a means of digestion. This, along with some very specific anatomical differences in the chemical composition of our metazoic cells, are the factors that define and distinguish an animal like yourself from all other kingdoms of life. Given the alternative choice between plants, molds, or fungus, animalia should seem reasonable.

Humans are animals lol.

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Well i was always under the impression that "reason" played just a small part in our composition in comparison to brute instinct. To compare a human to an animal, telling me they are the same just seems a bit off to me. I guess it's just the way we look at it *shrug*

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"We laugh at honor and are shocked when we find knives in our backs, we follow those who cheat and steal. Look in my eyes, you won't find your way back. Our only compass smashed under our own heels, under our iron will. The abolition of man is within the reach of science. But are we so far gone that we'll try it?" - Dustin Kensrue

There are many documented cases of animals using reason. Videos on most of them too.

Google it, some are pretty cute.

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-i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section


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