Hey, my questions were used to a good purpose.
Here's another one, are you a hippie?
J/k, seriously, you think that Christians are responsible for our environmental "crisis".
First, my knowledge is VERY shallow on this topic, so if you could find some good source that describes oru current crisis, that'd be very helpful.
Second, why would you blame Christians?
My family raised me as a strict Catholic, and they ALWAYS emphasised that we have a moral responsibility to take care of the environment, and that it's wrong to pollute it in any way.
Secondly, I was also taught that animals should be treated with dignity and respect, but consuming them is fine b/c its part of the chain of life.
So what does your crusade for animal rights require?
What do you demand we change?
I think first, we should put the blame on the right people who completely disregard the well-being of animals and the health of our environment for the sake of the almighty dollar, not Christians who essentially oppose this immoral practice.
Just because the Christian Chain of existence puts man above animals doesn't mean animals are disregarded of their well-being.
The reason man is put above animals, is b/c man has the ability to reason, to think, to love, and to experience emotions which no [other] animal can. Therefore, though animals are to be granted their due respect, they are not justified in being given equal rights as humans.
If we were to do that, we'd have grieving periods for every ant, mosquito, or other insects that die b/c they are essentially euqal to us.
Every ant we see walking along would be granted equal dignity to a human being, which is ridiculous.
Think of all the rights you are given as a human being witht the ability to feel love and to reason, to appreciate beauty, and all those other wonderful things.
You bring up a good point when you say "what about the disabled, or the infants", they are incapable of reasoning, etc.
The thing is that these people will eventually have or COULD have had the oppurtunity to feel love, justice, etc... (and most still do)
Whereas animals will never have the ability to feel such things at any point.
Now I know humans are techincally considered animals, but when you look at the things we can feel, do, etc, you immediately see a radical difference between that ant crawling along the sidewalk and a full-grown human-being.

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II JumpiN II



Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

See: Avatar

You don't see our environmental crisis? Are you f..king blind? Marked, would you mind telling us how many species we, the human race, have destroyed?

A change in our world view

Because if we don't we're going to kill ourselves. Animals rights is the first step in fixing our anthropocentrism and the effects of such an attitude.

Um, 33% of the world is Christian. Do you really think none of them are in the category you just described, sir?

Speciesism. You're a racist.

No we wouldn't lol. Slippery slope fallacy.

Why? Why can't you let the ant do its thing, and you do yours? Arrogant homo sapien

Animals reason. My dog loves me.

The feel of justice? What does that feel like? Love can be expressed in animals. That's why this is called the argument from marginal cases. You give humans right because they can reason, so the rights are only given to those who are capable of such. But infants and the mentally disabled, and imbeciles, cannot. Since they cannot reason, they are lesser of a human to you.

"technically"? We ARE animals; we are not something above animals based on a biological difference any more than a dog. Do you realize how many animals have senses that surpass ours? So we have the ability to reason. Great. It's an evolutionary trait we have. Dogs have better sense of smell, but we put them on a lower plain because we use what's UNIQUE TO US as the necessary trait for being on a higher plain. How bias is that? Not very..how shall I put this...reasonable.

Every argument you just made is the exact arrogant anthropocentricsm I'm describing. Do you even realize you're doing it?

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I hate people who kill for sport. I hate, hate, hate, hate. My brother once was outside just stepping on ants. I just stopped what I was doing, like the big bug in the first Men In Black movie, and walked up to him, to make sure he was doing what i thought he was doing. Then I just turned him around and bunched him square in the face. He was 8. But you don't kill. No, you don't kill for fun.


EDIT: NiceGuy, I already know the answer, just curious as to the specifics, how much do you hate KFC, the behind the scenes KFC.

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I've always felt that factory farming is one of the most unethical and grotesque things we've ever done as humans. But at the same time, I love meat and I feel like a hypocrite for eating food that comes form factory farms. I've always said to myself "If someone could have a free range farm that kills animals in the most painless way possible, I would fully support that." However, in factory farms they have to carry out their slaughters in long and agonizing ways. It just seems unnecessary and cruel to me

Unfortunately, factory farming is much cheaper and you can produce more meat in a smaller amount of time.

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The goddess abhors us for what we have done
Bury your daughter and pray for a son



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Someone seriously needs to hit lookingfor1v1 with a clue-by-four.

I like that, that was very clever. Seriously, no sarcasm, I actually laughed out loud.

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You don't see our environmental crisis? Are you f.cking blind? Marked, would you mind telling us how many species we, the human race, have destroyed?

Of course I see that species are dying off.
I was just saying I haven't looked at its effects with great detail, but am starting to do so in my Chem. class.


A change in our world view.
Because if we don't we're going to kill ourselves. Animals rights is the first step in fixing our anthropocentrism and the effects of such an attitude.

Elaborate this.



Um, 33% of the world is Christian. Do you really think none of them are in the category you just described, sir?

If they are upholding practices (such as disregarding the crualty to animals/the degredation of the environment), then they're clearly not living out the Christian teaching.
In other words, they're hypocrites who don't deserve to be called Christian, and probabbly have no interested in practicing morality or their religion for that matter.



Speciesism. You're a racist.

I'll get to this.


Why? Why can't you let the ant do its thing, and you do yours? Arrogant homo sapien

Who says we couldn't? I'm perfectly fine with ants and I'm aware they play a majore role in the natural world.
You're jumping the gun like an arrogant homo who assumes that I'm saying ants are "evil". The question I'm posing is: should ants have equal rights to humans?


Animals reason. My dog loves me.

We all know that our dogs jump up and down when we get home, and are over-emphatic when awaiting their dialy supply of food.
This is love at its most superficial and simplistic form.
Oh, and you didn't just contradict yourself by saying animals reason, yet implying that reasoning is a trait exclusive to humans further down you post?

The feel of justice? What does that feel like? Love can be expressed in animals. That's why this is called the argument from marginal cases. You give humans right because they can reason, so the rights are only given to those who are capable of such. But infants and the mentally disabled, and imbeciles, cannot. Since they cannot reason, they are lesser of a human to you.

An infant will eventually have the ability to reason.
An imbicile/a mentally disabled person had the potential at one point to do so, and often feels the exact same things we do:
Dissapointment, love, hate, etc


"technically"? We ARE animals; we are not something above animals based on a biological difference any more than a dog. Do you realize how many animals have senses that surpass ours? So we have the ability to reason. Great. It's an evolutionary trait we have. Dogs have better sense of smell, but we put them on a lower plain because we use what's UNIQUE TO US as the necessary trait for being on a higher plain. How bias is that? Not very..how shall I put this...reasonable.

You know, as I look into this I really think you've got a point.

For example, like humans, animals have well formed rational faculties. Their ability to develop an argument, follow a line of logic, draw conclusions and frame hypotheses is quite remarkable.
Also like humans, animals have a marked faculty for language. (This, of course, is intertwined with their powers of reason.) Their vocabulary is enormous, their grammar complex, and their conversations deep and meaningful.
The animals ability to codify language in writing is further proof of their close relationship to humans. In this respect, it was most gratifying to see the number of apes who wrote to TIME magazine in response to the article on 'How Man Began'. I was particularly interested to follow the line of reasoning of the orang-utan who argued that apes had evolved from humans, not vice versa.
Like humans, animals also have a strong spirit of inquiry. Their research in the fields of astronomy, mathematics, medicine and physics is noteworthy.
Animals also (again, like humans) yearn for meaning in life. This is why they devote so much of their time to philosophy, theology and ethics. The religious sentiments and practices of all apes can be traced back to their intense and endless quest for meaning.
Animals are concerned about questions not only of origin but also of destiny. The best proof I can offer for this claim is the maxim by one famous ape philosopher who said, 'Whether my life leads ultimately to the dirt or to the Judgment, either way, I've got a problem.'
Animals also have, like humans, a refined aesthetic sense. They admire beauty and long to surround themselves with it. When an ape cultivates a garden, puts flowers in a vase, or hangs up a painting, what is it doing if not expressing a love of beauty?
Again like humans, animals have a strong creative impulse. This is seen in their poetry, painting, dance, drama and music. To a lesser extent their creativity is also evident in the way they gather in weekly craft groups to weave baskets, spin wool, knit shawls, and cover photo albums.
The sense of humour shared by all apes is another proof of their close kinship to humans. Their delight in the ridiculous and their love of a good laugh is plain from the popular ape jokes they tell.
Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour ... such intangible but fundamental qualities are by no means unique to humans, as I hope I have conclusively shown. Therefore, in the profound words of TIME magazine: 'No single, essential difference separates human beings from other animals'.
From this point forward, animals should be included in our society as equals, and be granted all the privilleges and rights that humans are given.
This being the case, Christians are plainly wrong to insist that humans and animals are different.
But of course, I'm just some arrogant racist who desires to exterminate all other animal species, and who makes completely unreasonable claims.
Furthermore, if we are equal to animals, then we are free . Free to be animals like our evolutionary ancestors. Free to be as low-down as snakes, and to make pigs of ourselves, and to act like donkeys.
Did I say 'free'?
Hiss! Oink! Hee-haw!

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II JumpiN II



Atheism is a crutch for those who cannot bear the reality of God.
Tom Stoppard

"No longer think of ourselves as conquerors over nature but a participant in its community." Animal rights is the first step, but that's an animal ethic, and in the larger scope of things I'm talking about an environmental ethic.


What about economists? The ones who destroy lands where animals thrive in order to build a theme park, or a church? I'm not talking simple cruelty, I'm talking about wasteful killing for our [human] self interest.



You didn't see the "sapien" in hidden text. Smooth, I thought that would go past you.

Who says you couldn't? PERFECT ATTITUDE. It's exactly that anthropocentrism I've been talking about; it's exactly why people treat animals however they feel. Nobody said they couldn't.

And stop asking me the same question. I've already answered it.


Higher reason.


A mentally disabled person did not ever possess the faculty to do so. So are you basing their rights that humans possess based on ...what they look like? Since it looks like a human?


I skipped over the blah blah blah. You're still basing your argument on faculties of the brain, on intelligence, and now on culture. Should a person of higher intellect be granted higher rights than one who is of lesser intellect? There is a greater gap between the average human and the philosopher than there is the average human and a chimp. Should a being of a culture "less civilized" than yours (we once regarded, and perhaps still do, other cultures as 'savage,' a state closer to animal than human) be afforded fewer rights?

You still sound like a speciesist; might as well be a racist or a sexist.

Not "animals included in our society," humans no longer thinking they're separate from it. What part of you being a component in this natural world don't you understand? What's so difficult in grasping the concept that you're basing the difference that justifies ourselves as higher up the Chain of Being than animals on either biological make up (what we look like) or biological advantage (reason)? We have higher reason, but animals surpass us in so many different biological fields.

Maybe animals don't wonder about the ways of the world because they already got it figured out

I never said humans weren't different. Humans are different from other humans in the same areas of difference you're saying justify our treatment and attitude towards animals.

Yeah. Go ahead and do that. Go ahead and vanquish every last bit of nature. Your inconsideration for animals surely means you don't consider the rights of the rest of nature, which humans go Crusoe on. You can treat animals however you like, you're free to do so. Just don't be surprised when the planet retaliates by killing us all.

See you in heaven.

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Read your post NiceGuy...well-written and well-constructed.

Furthermore.......lookingfor1v1, learn to use the f.cking quote button!

Edit* Thank you NiceGuy.I hope that was you.

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I thought the majority of species that have lived on the earth, werent destroyed by us.....

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