An infinite god would not need to have a cause. He would just exist.

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There is nothing in his argument that says God is infinite and in either case, if God can be infinite, there is nothing stopping the causal chain from being infinite. If "everything" has to have a cause, then it could just as easily go on and on and on.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies

When you get down to an initial cause, time is no longer relevant, and perhaps nonexistent. Timelines get tricky when you hit areas without time.

Without any sort of change, what could time be classified as? There would be no means to detect it, and nothing with which to attempt to detect it with.

If I try to remove time from my logic, things get messy and confusing really quick, but then again, that happens sometimes when I'm half asleep. Linear time is really boring, anyways.

At some level, there must've been some sort of cause, and a means for existence to exist and continue existing. Any logic that concludes that we don't exist has to be flawed somewhere...

As far as G_d being infinite, if everything is based in G_d, and there is something that is infinite, then G_d must be infinite. Since no knowledge exists outside of G_d, being that such a place wouldn't exist, G_d is all knowing, and since the universe's reality is tied to G_d, G_d is omnipresent, and omnipotent. Some sort of thought could be assumed in that we are capable of thought and self awareness, and since that knowledge is somehow based through G_d, G_d has some sort of consciousness, even if only through an arbitrary level of artificial abstraction. I don't see any way of working 'good' into there, since G_d must necessarily encompass both good and evil.

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If God is infinite, it stops the nasty chain of finite gods. If God is infinite there is no question where He originated...He just is.

That implies that there must be an infinite creator to create anything finite.

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Well there's a large paradox anyway. a) A creator must be separate from its creation, BUT... b) God can't exist outside of existence, which the universe encompasses.

So it gets complicated.

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Even still, there is nothing stopping an infinite regression of causes, so there doesn't have to be a first cause.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies

Well, they can't be seperate without the need for some outside thing through which they can effect each other. And as for the universe encompassing all of existence, that boils down to your definition of universe. If your definition with universe is broad enough, it melds with my definition of G_d, and then we're just left with the manipulation of an all inclusive entity through points where assuming time can get difficult. Piece of cake

Can you have an instance where the creation is actually a part of the creator?
A good example for this would be a program that modifies its own code. It creates itself, to a certain extent.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.
Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

Thanks to Shystie for avatar

Webster's has "universe" as "the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated," which is a definition that I have come to hold as well. I don't know what else universe could be defined as anyway. Thinking back to my discrete math days a couple of semesters ago, a universe encompasses everything that you are going to talk about concerning a set or a relation. The same analogy seems to hold for metaphysical issues as well.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies

My arguement is that God is not contingent, but rather infinite. There cannot be infinite regressions of an infinite being. There is no cause. It just exists.

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I'm not talking about God, I'm speaking to the idea that there must be a first cause. There is nothing stopping the chain of cause and effect from going back infinitely in time.


TMNT

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The Dark Knight = God of movies