Originally Posted by Licketysplit

Again that is just your opinion there is no concerte proof to back that up. So unless your going to come into a debate with some facts can you please get out?

I could sit here all day and just rip you in pieces without even putting any thought in it. All your statements are weak and very invalid.

You're the one who said that the fetus is conscious. The burden of proof falls on you. To say that we have to prove that the fetus isn't conscious would be idiotic.

Originally Posted by Licketysplit

Sorry let me re-word that question for you so it actually makes more sense. Where are my references?

Well thank you for asking here.

At 18 days [when the mother is only four days late for her first menstrual period], and by 21 days it is pumping, through a closed circulatory system, blood whose type is different from that of the mother.

Reference:J.M. Tanner, G. R. Taylor, and the Editors of Time-Life Books, Growth, New York: Life Science Library, 1965, p.12

How early do some organs form?
The eye, ear and respiratory systems begin to form four weeks after fertilization.

Reference:K. Moore, Before We Were Born, 3rd ed., 1989, p. 278

And function?
Very early, e.g., glucagon, a blood sugar hormone, has been demonstrated in the fetal pancreas 6 weeks after fertilization, and insulin by 7 to 8.Thumbsucking has been photographed at 7 weeks after fertilization.

Reference: W. Liley, The Fetus As Personality, Fetal Therapy, 1986, p. 8-17
F. Cunningham, "Pancreas," William’s Obstet., 19th ed., 1993, p. 183-4

At what point are ALL his body systems working?
By 11 weeks.

Reference: "Life Before Birth," Life Magazine, Apr. 30, 1965, p. 13

Any more questions so I can roffle stomp you harder sir?

1. The snippets about blood pumping, organ development and basic functions were pointless, they didn't really prove consciousness at all.

2. It would have helped if you had posted the page you got the data off of.
http://www.mainerighttolife.com/feta...ment/facts.php

3. I checked the site, and some of data (which may I add is OLD) don't seem to quite make sense. In one point it says all body systems are functioning by 11 weeks, while other points are clearly pointing out that certain body systems begin functioning at 11-12 weeks. (Unless by body systems they mean organs).

There's also one point that asks when can it swallow, which is answered to be at 11 weeks, while only 2 points before it says by 9 weeks the baby can "Squint, swallow, and move his tounge"

4. I'm not exactly sure what you were going for in this debate, but if it was to refute my point about abortion that you didn't really do it. What you did was prove that by 11 weeks all the baby's body systems are functioning.

However there are a couple of things wrong with that.

A) It does not prove that the fetus can feel any pain.

B) There is no sound proof of when the fetus can feel pain. But most studies that state that the fetus likely can't feel pain until the third trimester.

Click
Click (Article)
Click (Study Summary)

C) Even if th fetus somehow feels pain earlier than that (say at the beginning of the second trimester), than your argument still doesn't do much because the gross majority of abortions take place during the mid-late first trimester.

Click
Click (This one is about the UK)

werd idk i geuss [since im 14] i'd maybe think about going through with an abortion.. but then again it woud crush me to know i'm killing.. my kid?

Originally Posted by ii YaRiZ

werd idk i geuss [since im 14] i'd maybe think about going through with an abortion.. but then again it woud crush me to know i'm killing.. my kid?

Read the f..king thread, seriously.

You guys that come into this section; it's not like all the other sections, you are obligated to read the whole damn thread, and know all the rules of the debate section.

Sorry, but you would share my frusteration for the abundance of stupid comments and non-debating going on.

Lickety, making quips at the end of every quote doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like an idiot with your failed ebonic attempts.

If people just read the thread pages ago, this topic at hand wouldn't even had taken place.

*sigh

Originally Posted by BORAT IS FOLLY

Read the f..king thread, seriously.

You guys that come into this section; it's not like all the other sections, you are obligated to read the whole damn thread, and know all the rules of the debate section.

Sorry, but you would share my frusteration for the abundance of stupid comments and non-debating going on.

Lickety, making quips at the end of every quote doesn't make you right, it just makes you look like an idiot with your failed ebonic attempts.

If people just read the thread pages ago, this topic at hand wouldn't even had taken place.

*sigh

You already know that they won't read. They're illiterate.

You can't have your way with every fool in the world. It works to just let them have their way, then trick them when they're not looking.

:]

Besides .. I think that the 14 year olds little comment of how she might have an abortion was a bit .. off-topic? I mean, the initial question of the thread was "What do you think about abortion and if you agree or disagree with it." ..

I don't really think that answered the question, nor gave an opinion. Weird little person. -.-

Originally Posted by Inconceivable

You already know that they won't read. They're illiterate.

You can't have your way with every fool in the world. It works to just let them have their way, then trick them when they're not looking.

:]

Besides .. I think that the 14 year olds little comment of how she might have an abortion was a bit .. off-topic? I mean, the initial question of the thread was "What do you think about abortion and if you agree or disagree with it." ..

I don't really think that answered the question, nor gave an opinion. Weird little person. -.-

I agree, but every now and then I feel like I rant some sense into people.

After all, this is the section I visit most.

Nice to see you too

Originally Posted by Devour

What do you think about abortion and if you agree or disagree with it.


Discuss

I do not agree with abortion.

Originally Posted by Midpoint

I do not agree with abortion.

Vague, but I suppose it'll do. :]



Mm, okay, let's try to stay on topic here .. Uhm .. What do I think about abortion ..

It cost money, in most cases. Yay? :]

Originally Posted by tom31deecc FTW

Here in the UK, at least, it's considered stupid to get pregnant at such a young age.
The tone of her post irritated me. I wasn't speaking of abortion.

Oh i gotcha. My bad.

In a society in which we live, where Puritanical views still exist, abortion may be a social gaffe to some and a saving grace to others. The idea that children or even adults should be punished for sex is wrong. Not having sex is not an option and contraceptives arent 100% effective. People are very sexual despite trying to indoctrinate children into thinking sex is wrong a slight turn around is happening in America. You may say that it is taking away a child's opportunity to live, but what is life when you're poor and you can't be supported. As far as we know now they aren't technically human until the second trimester, which is why the rules are strictly enforced on early abortions being the only ones allowed.

If we did outlaw abortion, think of this, children(teenage girls) would be forced to seek help from more archaic means.

Originally Posted by Hieroglyphics

If we did outlaw abortion, think of this, children(teenage girls) would be forced to seek help from more archaic means.

Along with the outlawing of abortion must come policies that stimulate adoption, education, and a pro-job market so young ones can grow up safely and securely. Policies like this can be enacted without spending a billion dollars.

hiero post 201: Good point. It should be easier to adopt and there needs to be additional incentives. Some American love would help too.