Originally Posted by davobrosia

Well I agree with Paul on everything but healthcare and abortion, which he wouldn't outlaw but wouldn't protect, either (and which needs to be protected).

I guess that's why I wish it wouldn't be a waste to vote for Gravel.

I'm confused on this one. If it's Obama (or Hilary) and McCain then how can you vote for Gravel?

After seeing this, I liked him:

Originally Posted by Crest

Anyone seen the episode of Bullsh.t! called Family Values?

Yea... watch it.

All of the sh.t they do is great. I agree with them on pretty much every point and the only issue I was actually surprised that they were opposed to was recycling. I guess I agree with them, but I think we should still recycle aluminium cans since at least THAT is beneficial.

Originally Posted by MsTkEyes

I'm confused on this one. If it's Obama (or Hilary) and McCain then how can you vote for Gravel?

Gravel is running for the Libertarian Party nomination. It's unlikely he'll get the nod, though.

Originally Posted by Revlett

Gravel is running for the Libertarian Party nomination. It's unlikely he'll get the nod, though.

Economically he's like opposite to the Libertarians. I really don't know why he decided to run for it. He'd have a way better chance with the Green Party or even as in independent.

Originally Posted by Revlett

Gravel is running for the Libertarian Party nomination. It's unlikely he'll get the nod, though.

As a Libertarian myself, I'm actually fairly pleased with Gravel.

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

Economically he's like opposite to the Libertarians. I really don't know why he decided to run for it. He'd have a way better chance with the Green Party or even as in independent.

I agree. The fact that he supports a world governing body (there's a youtube of him saying this... sadly, I can't find it now) puts him at odds with the entire Libertarian Party. To be honest, I believe he's just trying to capture the Ron Paul vote in order to continue running for President (most RP supporters would support the Libertarian Party over the Green Party or an independent candidate imo).

Originally Posted by TooMuchButtHair

As a Libertarian myself, I'm actually fairly pleased with Gravel.

I'm a libertarian, too, but there are several deal breakers with me concerning Gravel.

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

He'd have a way better chance with the Green Party or even as in independent.

Better chance of what?

Does somebody want to compare Gravel to Obama for me? Aside from doing the "superman" with Obamas girl, obviously pandering to the youth vote(jk), why would you vote for this man?

If someone will provide Gravels stance on:
Foreign Policy
Iraq
Economy
Energy & Enviorment
Health Care
some other issue you care about

i will provide Obamas in laymans terms and links

if someone wants to do Paul i'll do that too.

Originally Posted by josh1337

Homosexuals make up about 1-2% of the US population however they account for 60% of syphilis cases, 4% of gonorrhea cases, and 17% of all hospital visits. Also 42% of all new HIV cases are caused by homosexual

Ew, so straight people account for 96% of gonorrhea cases?! Those dirty, dirty people! Being straight is so gay!

Me? Personally, I have sex with melons.


Ohhh, you dirty melon.

Originally Posted by CitizenZenSin

Better chance of what?

Does somebody want to compare Gravel to Obama for me? Aside from doing the "superman" with Obamas girl, obviously pandering to the youth vote(jk), why would you vote for this man?

If someone will provide Gravels stance on:
Foreign Policy
Iraq
Economy
Energy & Enviorment
Health Care
some other issue you care about

i will provide Obamas in laymans terms and links

if someone wants to do Paul i'll do that too.

Foreign Policy (and Iraq): immediate withdrawal of troops, trustworthy in that he was one of the most influential senators opposing the Vietnam War.

Economy: filed for personal bankruptcy (I guess you could take this as proof that he has a more personal stake in economic matters), supports requiring the federal budget to be balanced each year.

Energy & Environment: wants to tax oil, increase use of wind-power, said he, "started the nuclear critique in this country," and he said he would immediately sign the Kyoto Protocol and "make global warming a matter of national security". He said he'd also strengthen the clean water act & clean air act, supports carbon tax to get off of oil, and he sponsored a bill allowing tax reductions for recycling costs.

Health Care: universal coverage with guaranteed care, expand Medicare & child healthcare programmes. His personal bankruptcy is related to healthcare costs as well, so it's likely he'd be passionate about this issue.

War on Drugs: would legalise all drugs.

Immigration: supports amnesty for all illegal immigrants living here and stop deportation; though for some reason he supports making English the official language (I guess to combat Spanish-language dominance, which he feels may happen through his immigration policy).

Jobs: supports unions and wants to raise the federal minimum wage; he sponsored a bill to help employees buy closing businesses.

Taxes: eliminate income tax, impose national sales tax (to replace IRS), less regressive tax on poor, more capital gains on rich.

Abortion: strongly supports, says it's a woman's right; also supports funding for stem cell research.

That was with a quickness. Nice. I started to respond 2hrs after your post but then something came up and i lost 45 min worth of work. I'd like to keep this short and sweet but i doubt that happens.

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

Foreign Policy (and Iraq): immediate withdrawal of troops, trustworthy in that he was one of the most influential senators opposing the Vietnam War.

As far as Foreign Policy goes Obama is reaching for the stars. Some of the stuff on his page would be monumental. He wants to negotiate with Israeli-Palastinien leaders to get those folks living side by side peacefully. He says he will meet with Iran with no preconditions in efforts to get them to suspend their nuclear weapons programs and terrorist support. He will reward them with economic investments(Ahmadinejad might lose his job in their elections this yr due to Iran's economy), membership in the WTO and normal diplomatic relations. If they continue he will step up economic pressure and political isolation. And also he wants to do things like stop the genocide in Darfar, ease world hunger and poverty, and take the first steps to a nuclear free world(he got a law passed with (R) d.ck Luger that aims to stop smuggling of WMD's). Here's the list:http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreignpolicy/

Is it all realistic? Probably not. But if we get the ball rolling on some things while he deals with his priorities (Iraq#1) then maybe some day some one will finish it.

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

Economy: filed for personal bankruptcy (I guess you could take this as proof that he has a more personal stake in economic matters), supports requiring the federal budget to be balanced each year.

Obama wants to institute something called "Making Work Pay". This will save individuals $500 and working families $1K. This will supposedly eliminate income taxs for 10million Americans. He also wants to simplfiy filing so that taxpayers have the option to sign,verify and return pre-filled tax forms. Wow theres too much to mention, but i'm not sure how it will look to a libertarian. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

Energy & Environment: wants to tax oil, increase use of wind-power, said he, "started the nuclear critique in this country," and he said he would immediately sign the Kyoto Protocol and "make global warming a matter of national security". He said he'd also strengthen the clean water act & clean air act, supports carbon tax to get off of oil, and he sponsored a bill allowing tax reductions for recycling costs.

Health Care: universal coverage with guaranteed care, expand Medicare & child healthcare programmes. His personal bankruptcy is related to healthcare costs as well, so it's likely he'd be passionate about this issue.

I'm losing steam here so i'm bout to get real lazy. These are all headers in the various sections of Obamas issues pages. Each one has a short succinct paragraph following it. It is very interesting stuff, and may pertain to you and your family. The last one pertains to my family and our buisness.
Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies
Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs
Deploy Next-Generation Broadband
Protect the Openness of the Internet
Reform Bankruptcy Laws to Protect Families Facing a Medical Crisis
Fight for Fair Trade
Invest $150 Billion over 10 Years in Clean Energy
Deploy Cellulosic Ethanol:
Establish a Grant Program for Early Adopters
Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems

If you want to read for yourself what Obama plans to do instead of letting other people tell you what he has planned, visit the site. I will write on the below after some sleep i'd like to get into the shortcomings of libertarian stances later. For instance does the goverment make our meth or do we still do it ourselves in trailers?

Originally Posted by `NthErik.

War on Drugs: would legalise all drugs.

Immigration: supports amnesty for all illegal immigrants living here and stop deportation; though for some reason he supports making English the official language (I guess to combat Spanish-language dominance, which he feels may happen through his immigration policy).

Jobs: supports unions and wants to raise the federal minimum wage; he sponsored a bill to help employees buy closing businesses.

Taxes: eliminate income tax, impose national sales tax (to replace IRS), less regressive tax on poor, more capital gains on rich.

Abortion: strongly supports, says it's a woman's right; also supports funding for stem cell research.